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I wonder if anyone else is interested in coaxing the EAA to make Swift UL94 fuel available to the general population at Airventure? Swift UL94 is an unleaded "drop in replacement" for aircraft certified to use 80 octane fuel (no STC needed). There are also STCs for aircraft that require minimum 91/96 Avgas. I was told at Airventure 2018 that Swift UL94 was available at the ultralight field, but not to the general public. I am ready to "get the lead out".
Count me in!! I fly a Rotax 912, so have no need for avgas at all. I've filled up with UL94 at Portage a couple of times, love that stuff when there's no ethanol-free premium MOGAS available. Last time I was at Airventure I walked by the Swift Fuels tent... they had a truck there, I wondered why not just bring a full one and stop over in HBP/HBC to fill up the ones that wanted it.
Swift has brought their fuel to other fly-ins such as Triple Tree. I’d certainly fill up with Swift if they had it at OSH. From their map it appears they are bringing it to OSH. https://swiftfuels.com/ul94-map
That Oshkosh map location appears to be at the Ultralight area?
Yes, I was told by the folks at the Swift tent that UL94 was available only at the Ultralight area. Since UL94 also meets the specs for auto fuel I expect it is the main fuel there. I would like to be able to fill up my certified airplane with UL94 in the GA parking area. I realize that it probably would cause issues for Basler as they would probably be the ones to supply it. So be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICAGORANDY
If Basler was to furnish Swift fuel they would have to have a tank and truck just for those fuels, I don't know if they could clean and use one the had previously held other fuel. I don't think there would be enough demand to make it profitable. There are a number of Rotax engines around, but those planes probably would take 10 gal and not add up to much. I used to fly a Rotax 337 or 447 cant recall or what fuel we used. If the current Rotax can use normal 100 ll that should take care of most planes. Its a side issue but T-6s are certified for 80 octane regular avgas, so I assume they could use 94 octane, also. Im not sure you could talk an T-6 owner into using a alternate fuel, bit if so they do use a lot of it, maybe 25to 30 gph in cruise.
I would like to invite those wanting UL Swift fuel to fly out of the light sport field and join the down on the farm fun. The T-6 does not fit in very well but most others would do well. Even the T-6 could operate out of the strip if exceptions were made to accommodate the pattern speeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood
The farm does not have the long lines and swarm arrivals of the main show runways. It is a well kept secret. Would AirVenture officials please comment?
I think you misunderstand. There are thousands of certified airplanes such as older Bonanzas, Skyhawks, Skylanes, etc that are certified for 80 octane fuel. These would benefit from omitting the lead in the fuel by using UL94. They would not be welcome at the Ultralight field, and it would not be safe or even possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi
Not quite as simple as that. They were certified for 80 octane LEADED fuel. IIRC, the lead acts as a lubricant on valve guides, etc. 100 "Low Lead" fuel has four times the lead as the old 80 octane, which for many engines, is too much of a good thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJZajkowski
I run my C85 on unleaded car gas in the summer, but switch to 100LL in the fall due to gas-stability issues. It seems to handle the mixed diet.
Ron Wanttaja
My understanding is that it is indeed that simple. If lead is needed as a lubricant, then we are all going to be in trouble when (and if) unleaded 100 octane is ever created and replaces 100LL.Quote:
Originally Posted by rwanttaja
From the SWIFT website describing UL94:
"This proprietary unleaded fuel formulation is a blend of hydrocarbons designed to meet the fuel specification standards of ASTM D7592, D7547, and D4814. This fuel is FAA-certified for use in up to 65% of the US piston fleet; up to 100,000 aircraft are already certified to use the fuel based upon existing Type Certificates and/or Autogas STC's. An additional 25,000+ aircraft, those whose engines are rated for minimum Grade 91/96 Avgas, are eligible to purchase an FAA Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) for the use of Unleaded UL94 Avgas."
It happened over twenty years ago, but this is how I remember it: I had bought a used Fly Baby with 25 hours on the overhauled engine, and immediately started running it on auto fuel. At the next condition inspection, one cylinder was leaking down a valve.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJZajkowski
The guy who rebuilt the cylinder told me that this engine needed to run on leaded fuel (e.g., 100LL) for a while to establish a lead base, after which unleaded auto fuel could be safely run. There was also the option of installing special valves that were compatible with unleaded fuel right from the start. I did so, on the bad cylinder, but the other three were original style. So I ran about ~50 hours on 100LL then switched to alternating unleaded and leaded fuel. No valve problems in the last 20 years.
Though maybe that's the MMO. :-)
If I've remembered it correctly, existing 80-octane engines probably have a sufficient lead base to last then, and the right valves would just need to be installed at the next overhaul.
IIRC, lead is required if the fuel is to have an octane greater than ~94. So it sounds like the planes designed for 100LL (e.g. everything built since 1985) are going to be SOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJZajkowski
Ron Wanttaja
All Swift does is take bulk unleaded gasoline and blend in some magic ingredients. The refined fuel stock comes from the same source as everyday car gasoline. If an FBO / fuel supplier has a no-competition agreement with an airport and they sell brand name oil company fuel, Swift fuel probably won't be available at that airport. That happened near where I live, an airport started selling Swift fuel and the oil company/FBO selling brand name 100LL had that shut down and all Swiftfuel dispensing was removed from airport. I'm surprised they are able to sell Swift fuel at OSH. Seems that might ruffle feathers and get shut down. Still some challenges besides the fuel itself.
I don't see any challenges with the fuel so far. This is 94 octane unleaded AVIATION fuel. I don't think car gasoline would meet the ASTM specs for aviation fuels.
In so far as the no-competition issue goes, maybe that is a problem, but there are many airports selling it. We just need enough people to ask for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martymayes
Swift fuel does not own a refinery. They are not making their own gasoline. Where do you suppose they get it?Quote:
Originally Posted by PJZajkowski
Thank you CHICAGORANDY!! (You don't need to own a refinery in order to mix up an aviation fuel from components.)