Printable View
Our chapter is discussing the merits of adding a Tig welding outfit to our tool crib.
What recommendations would you make for a Tig unit suitable for use in the aviation environment?
What are the SportAir workshops using?
I know there are a lot of variables, just trying to get a discussion seeded.
Thanks
Beyond stating the obvious that Miller and Lincoln are HUGE presences at AirVenture? I got nuthin'. lol
Do you already have a Mig.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Franck
Jake Speed
I bought a Lincoln Square Wave TIG for my birthday last year to weld aluminum. Its a bit of a gas hog but I'm very happy with its performance. I liked at the Miller equivalent and went Lincoln due to its detachable/servicable torch.
https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-u...ncolnElectric)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desertdave
A good MIG welder has advantages over the TIG.
I would Google, the truth is out there.
Jake Speed
Don't hold back, tell us about these advantages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Speed
From my standpoint, and IMHO, MIG can weld much thicker metals to thin, TIG is limited to thin materials.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilliamrose
Learning to MIG is easier. I like easy.
I listed two advantages. There are disadvantages also. My MIG work was for car metal restoration and related tasks.
Jake Speed
I will say there aren't many welds in the aircraft I've been involved with that have huge differences in thickness. I have welded thick materials to thin materials in other applications and found it very doable with TIG.
Easier? Maybe for simple welds but using MIG to weld clusters like a typical steel tube fuselage has would not be 'easy' by any definition, at least IMHO. Not that I know much about MIG welding.....
Just throwing out what I have personally done and seen. I have welded 3.5" carbon steel with a Mig and I have seen, 1.5" #9 Chrome Tig welded many times, pre heated of course. And I have seen schedule 10 stainless steel, and that's pretty thin, Tig welded. I even saw a welder Tig weld a dime to a stainless fitting once. So, thick or thin, it can be done if you have the experience. What does all this have to do with welding aircraft tubing, not a d*()^ thing.
Bob
This thread got side tracked pretty quickly. Red or Blue you can't go wrong but I went red for the reasons I listed above.
Ron, I had a business building J-3 fuel tanks (FAA-PMA) and used a Lincoln V205T, which was the top of the line at the time. Right before they ended production of the welder Lincoln listed for around $8K (I paid $3K in 2005). It still performs great to this day. As a "travel" welder I got the AlphaTIG 200 (Amazon $720). The Alpha does just fine. If you are a connoisseur you may be able to notice a smoother arc from the Lincoln, better amp control from the better foot pedal, etc. An experienced weldor using either welder will get a great weld. I would be careful with a "club" welder. I work in a shop with many A&P's and the care they take of their own tools is vastly different from the care they take of company tools. One drop or other abuse could render an expensive piece of equipment inop. All of that to say....the "welder" is not as important as the "weldor". Miller, Lincoln, HTP, ESAB, Alpha, MT, etc, etc, etc are all good units.--Ross PS watch Jody at weldingtipsandtricks.com for tig welder reviews.
I bought a Lincoln Precissio TIG 225 some years ago. I have owned a Miller Dial Arc 250 HF and a Miller 300 APB years ago. The Lincoln is the least expensive machine I have owned and it welds the best. I can weld .032 aluminum easily with the Lincoln, never with the Millers. The foot amperage control is the best of any of the machines I have owned. I paid under $2,000 for the Lincoln.
The best addition I have made to this machine is to change over to a HW20 sized water cooled torch, from the original air-cooled torch. For the water cooler I have a plastic storage bin ( about 5 gallons) and a submersible pump that cost less than $100 from McMaster-Carr.
Most of the welding I do would be called aircraft type. Materials are generally .035 to .080 steel both mild and alloy steels and aluminum from .032 to .060.
I have spent both time and money trying to make MIG welding work for my work with no luck. My worst night mayor is getting one of my products in the shop for repairs where someone has tried to repair a crack with a MIG welder. I now have the original crack to repair plus 2 new ones on either side of the MIG weld bead.
Better go back to school. Only advantage is ease of use. Can't do chromoly. Cant do magnesium, can't do, can't do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Speed
Material capacity is dictated by amps. * Use of mixed gasses can help, but amps dictates welding capacity, NOT process (mig, tig)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Speed
This guy will get you killed.
OK, you can weld chromoly with mig, but you better be damn good, or you will lose strength... and I mean damn good... not "I can run a bead good".
Back in the day, tig welders were generally referred to as "heliarc". Helium was generally used to increase heat. That was 40 or more years ago. Things have changed a little in 40 years.
I am going to weigh in here with a quick reality check. Adding any kind of welder to a tool crib invites "I'll teach myself to weld" with the chapter equipment. We all know where that leads. That said having someone who actually knows how to weld, do work space setup, safety awareness and PPE is more likely to use and not abuse the equipment. Last spring I did 12 weeks of general and GTAW training at our local community college. It was 4 days a week and 5 hours a day. It was about $300 for tuition and NO materials fee. We burned up 60-$70 a day in coupons, gas, rod, and yes tungsten. Hoods, goggles, tools, clamps, even leather were available. Only things we had to provide were gloves, steel toed shoes, cotton shirts, and safety glasses. Needless to say it was easy to want and buy some slightly less used gear for yourself. We worked with all the major welding methods - Oxy-Fuel, GMAW, GTAW, SMAW+ Flux core, and Plasma cutting. Materials - A36 steels, aluminium, SST, and accidentally titanium. We had Blue Box, Red Box and Green Box equipment.
Here is my take on this ...... people who want to use the equipment provide their own PPE ( that means they are going to invest some money) , attend a semester of welding class, and during that class(s) bring in some 4130, ( buy 20# of odds and ends from any of the suppliers) to practice with.
Personally I ended up buying a CC machine with AC and a plasma setup. 165 amps that can run on 110v or 220v 30 amps. Bought a cheep welder cart at HF up sized the wheels, made a fold up table that rides on the cart so I can wheel it around, using a 80cu Argon tank. Rods and tools ride on the cart as well. It has worked out well with a minimum footprint. It could be transportable with disassembly of the heavy bits.
There are lots of options for the hobbyist welder to chose from. IMHO you do not need a $8K machine to weld 4130 thin wall or any of the common aluminium sizes. If you need to weld big stuff - take it to a shop and let them mess with it.
As an alternative host a class - bring in a certified welder - CWE would be perfect. and have them set up work stations.
End of my day....
I'm with you 100%. One is as wise to teach themself to weld as they are to represent themself in court. It can be done... bad idea most of the time.
Tig welding is an art. It is a balance of heat, speed of travel, coordination, etc. It is not a self taught thing. Mig ... hell, a monkey can mig weld.
Now, you can do anything with a tig... it is not fast, it is precision in the right hands.
I challenge the monkey can GMAW - try flux-core. What looks great is so disappointing once you knock off the slag. Kicked my butt in class - esp vertricle up and overhead. Agree GTAW is an art form - we watch the videos or the instructor and marvel at the control and seemingly fludid motion. Commonly frustrated at the pactice pieces accumulating on your station. Out of my class of 35 there were only 2 "naturals" that cruised through toward certification. I was not one of them.
Okay back to recommendations
There are about 4 choices IMHO . All are either imported or assembled here from offshore parts.
We know the blue box (Miller) and the red box ( Lincoln) then there are Forney and Everlast. All have a light duty GTAW AC/DC machines that run on 110 and 220. You will pay 15% more for a Miller machine or there about. All have good service systems and accessories. Many of the torches are interchangeable. There are lots of options in torches as you will find out.
Torches: Air cool (actually the shielding gas) vs water cool. A water cooled torch will be cooler to you the user but adds complexity and another ‘box’ to add to the footprint plus adds 2 more hoses to the system. Water cool increases the duty cycle for longer power on time. But most aircraft welding is done in short welds of less than a minute. A flex head is a nice choice for working around a tight cluster weld. You will want to use a gas lens and a stubby collet body. So, go right from the start put the “stock” bits away for emergencies and buy a stubbly gas lens kit for the torch. ( BTW you will never use the stock collet body again) Torch hoses – Super flex hose is wonderful to work with – light and nonrestrictive when in tight welds. The “also included” in the welder kit has none of these – usually.
Other things you will need – tungsten in at least 2 sizes, and a way of sharpening them. And spares – you will dip the tip in the weld puddle – more than once.
If this statement isn't correct, fix it.
A Mig can do everything a Tig can do plus more. But a Tig cannot do everything a Mig can do.
Jake Speed
I tack with MIG...weld with TIG.... my TIG also burns 7018
50 years welding experience
Wouldn't get caught in a welder debate
Gotta Fly...
Yes my TIG has Pulse , and Sequencer ... and I can use a Momentary switch instead of a foot pedal when I like.
.
But the Welders don't have PRE_HEATERS
.
I back up.... My Sequencer can be adjusted not only to RAMP down when you release it.
It can also be adjusted to ramp UP for a pre-heat.
.
One thing I hardly ever hear anyone talking about it pre-heat....
.
I always have a quick start propane torch close by... Steel thru Aluminum...They all need it.
Sometimes I even use it to slow the cooling. Especially on cast
Even torch welding needs pre heat...Or you'll cold lap the metal.
I like my water cooled TIG.... Smaller.... I even have a few "Cups" that are cut down...
I only use a button cap on the back.... All my TIG rods are broke in half , then ground to a point.
I have a little case with about 10 of them ready to swap out.
Red..Old stuff , Gray and green are what I use...Steel or Aluminum.
Gotta Fly...
How Mig welder has more advantage over Tig.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Speed