Non-pilot getting started in ultralights

I've been fighting the urge to write this, hoping that I could "wing it" on my own, but apparently the time has come to man up and ask for help from the masses.

After weeks of research on the new-to-me subject of part 103 ultralights, I have narrowed my choices down to a Quicksilver Sport or Spirit. I sent an email to Ultralight of Iowa requesting information on said aircraft, but have yet to hear back (hopefully they're staying busy.)

Really hoping someone here can help me out with a "this is what ya gotta do"... From ordering an aircraft, and getting it home, to finding general flight instructions (no UL flyers that I know of in the area).

The whole ordeal has become slightly overwhelming (to the point of hardly knowing what questions to ask), and I really don't want that to deter me from my goal of flight.

Any help you knowledgeable folks could offer up would be greatly appreciated.



Bryan

Note that nothing Quicksilver makes today is 103 compliant.

I suggest contacting Mark Smith at Tri-State Kites. He's no longer a Quicksilver dealer but he knows more about them than anybody left at the factory. The quicksilverultralightowners yahoo group is also a good source of information for all things Quicksilver.

Got a bad vibe from that post. Makes me think what little info I have found is all outdated and obsolete...

May have to look at a different manufacture, if there are any other reputable companies still in business.

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Originally Posted by arrowheadHD

Got a bad vibe from that post. Makes me think what little info I have found is all outdated and obsolete...

May have to look at a different manufacture, if there are any other reputable companies still in business.

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You might check out Belite:

http://www.beliteaircraft.com

This is not an endorsement, just a suggestion for further research.

The sport is a single surface wing,no alerions.

The sprint is a double surface wing with alerions. I believe they refer to this as the MXL Sprint. You can buy these used, they are everywhere. Get one with a rotax.

Try and find someone with a dual seater whom will take you up and show you how to fly it. You might have to spend some hrs with this person to get use to this aircraft. They fly so very easy, even the MXL with alerions.

As others say you have other options as to Par 103 rule. The legal eagle is a very nice airplane and will cost you half what a Belite will cost. They build these using a 1/2vw power plant. People build this using other power plants but I would stick with the VW, its a better engine then anything else being put on these airplanes. I purchased a Brand new legal Eagle for under 4500 bucks. You could call it used since I purchased from the builder, but it was new with 1 hr on AF and Engine. It was taxied and crow hopped. I fly her for the first time.

The quickslivers are trikes, the Belite and Legal Eagle are tail draggers. I can not speak for the belite but the Legal eagle is such a docile machine or handles so nice you will be flying the taildragger in no time.

Good luck with your Par 103 ultralight and remember, stick with either a rotax or go with the VW. Those are your best options for reliable power.

Fly Smart

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Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan

You might check out Belite:

http://www.beliteaircraft.com

This is not an endorsement, just a suggestion for further research.

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Funny, it was stumbling across the Belite webite that peaked my interest in 103 craft, and made me realize that there was an affordable method of flying... Unfortunately, as an almost-broke college student, the Belite will remain a pipe dream. A bit too steep for the ol' pocket book.


While sitting down with my coffee this morning, I found a company called Free Bird Innovations, based here in Minnesota. (http://flyfbi.com) Has anyone heard of, or have any experience with this company? It looks like they have (or had?) a 103 in development that appears to follow the K.I.S.S. philosophy to a T.
Promising, if not too good to be true. Finding a semi-local company to deal with would definitely alleviate some of the stress involved with this.

I gave this question some thought and the ouside research is not quite what oldtimers suggest. Of course my tastes are different, too. For example, I do not like Mini-Max, Aerodrome, and such. Also, I do not want to assemble a kit (ok, I know, a strange demand for a member of EAA, but I live in a rental etc. etc.)

The most important thing to decide is really if you want to buy used or new and how much older do you want to go. In particular, are you ok with flying a 2-axis airplane.

If you buy "used", you can buy lots of excellent airplanes, especially those registered E-AB. That means Legal Eagle that Mr. 1600 suggested previously. Another great used option is a small Kolb.

Buying used has other advantages. First, E-ABs often have 4-stroke engines and you can ferry them, within reason. Failing that, trailer them with just wings removed. New ultralights always come in a crate, even "ready to fly" ones. You must have a hangar beforehand to deal with unboxing and assembly.

If you want to buy new, then about all new ultralghts that fit my tastes cost the same: a shade above $20,000 with inflation. Amazing, isn't it? So, here's my list for those with $22k burning a hole in their pocket and wanting the freedom of an ultralight.

Belite is the leader, no doubt about it. By adding options you can buy up a really capable machine for $50k, but Jim can sell you a stripper taildragger for $20k+ with a chute. Check his price list carefuly. Of course you get one of those awful 28hp Hirth engines for the price, but hey, it's cheap. Jim is reliable and trustworthy but the lead time is a few months, be ready not to get a buyer's remorse.

Vally Eng. BYF is an extremely intriguing design that homebuilders hate, hate, hate. I love that thing. Gene is close to retirement, so buy yours now. The big advantage of BYF is that it comes with a 4-stroke engine. Ask them to keep it de-rated and it will serve you as long as 1/2 WV in Legal Eagle. The disadvantage is that you need a long trailer, which is half as expensive as airplane! But the airplane is cheap. It's under $20k with chute.

Aerolite 103 is kind of like much improved Quick Sprint, but actually it is an independent design that was in production at various factories for a while. Last year U-Fly-It bought full rights. This is about the only problem, since the company is new, we need to know if they do a good job.

Following the leaders are:

* Earthstar Gull: that thing is EXPENSIVE and I'm not kidding. It's an ultralight with a real wing that is fully cross-country capable.

* Challenger: iconic design that outgrew ultralitght roots. Quad City is trying to bring it back to Part 103. I'm pretty sure they had dealer assembly option for that.

* CGS Hawk Ultra: the company that just won't give up and an excellent ultralight design. They survived the transition away from Denny (not privy to details here though). Like Kolb and Challenger they have a bit of a weight problem that they are addressing.

* M-Squared Breeze XL

I also hear periodically about dealer assembly options for Kolb and Qucksilver Sprint, which would be awesome if it pan out, but never get reliable and durable leads.

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Originally Posted by zaitcev

The most important thing to decide is really if you want to buy used or new and how much older do you want to go. In particular, are you ok with flying a 2-axis airplane.

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At this point I would have absolutely no issue with buying used, so long as I knew I could trust it with my life. Unfortunately at the moment that would be like flipping a coin, and praying it lands in my favor.

As far as design, 3-axis would be preferred, followed closely by weight-shift, with 2-axis bringing up the rear. ...Though I think just about any 103 legal UL that has been well taken care of would fit the bill if the price was right, and I could find training for it.

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Originally Posted by arrowheadHD

As far as design, 3-axis would be preferred, followed closely by weight-shift, with 2-axis bringing up the rear. ...Though I think just about any 103 legal UL that has been well taken care of would fit the bill if the price was right, and I could find training for it.

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arrowheadHD-I think we need to back up a bit and find more out about your current situation. That'll help us provide you useful information. Here are some questions I have:

1. Why is it you want to get into flying ultralights as opposed to anything else that can get you in the air [from a hang glider to a Cessna]? What is it about ultralight flying that attracts you? [This could range from "I like the open cockpit feel", "I see a group flying at my local airport a lot", "I like to work on things", etc. etc. etc.]
2. What is your flying experience. Ever taken a GA lesson, for instance?
3. What is your budget? How much can you generally spend on an ultralight?
4. Do you have a place to keep it and fly it already? [In many areas of the country that is the tougher thing to solve than figuring out how to get enough training to be able to get yourself into flying your own ultralight or determining which ultralight to buy.]

My experience is that there are other elements about owning an ultralight [e.g. one's budget, where to keep it, where to fly it] that will determine which ultralight will be best for a particular pilot.

But I really think rather than "Quicksilver 101", you may want to change the title of your original post to "A Non-Pilot Getting Started in Ultralights".

As others have said, "Ultralights" can be anything from the solid Quicksilver MX I bought recently for $2K to stuff that will cost you north of $20K. All of them will get you off the ground.

My final thought is to think about approaching this in stages. An ultralight suitable for a "newbie" now. You'll own and fly that for a while and then sell it at some point when you want something less "entry level". Or when you have a better feel for what kind of flying you do.

-Buzz

My experience is that this can be a very BIG barrier for anyone wanting to fly a fixed wing ultralight.

And it is even mores for a non-pilot wanting to get into ultralight flying that is also new to his/her local aviation community.

What kind of tips do people have on solving this particular challenge for someone wanting to to start flying ulralights?

-Buzz

I met 2 kinds of people who do ultralights nowadays.

#1 is start with hang gliders, then graduate to Quicksilver, PIG (glider), or other 2-axis aircraft, and finally perhaps a Kolb. This is cheaper, but you will survive crashes. I know one local pilot who crashed 10 times, a couple of times with complete write-off of his aircraft. He flies an old Quick MXL now. This is a true barnstorming way, you almost repeat the history of early aviators this way.

#2 is go up into conventional aviation, then downsize the best you can. That's basically what I am doing. In our ultralight club, the recommended legal instruction is with a local guy who has a Cessna 120. That's as slow as it goes with a CFI. Then a member takes you up in RANS S-12XL or similar E-AB (we don't have anyone with ELSA). You cannot obtain instruction and you are supposed to stay off the controls, but at least you get the sight picture and know how steep the glide is. After that, check yourself out like you would in any GA single-seater like FlyBaby.

Road #1 is dangerous and road #2 is expensive.

There were some good questions noted. Is your desire based on UP ? and just happen to note fixed wing part 103? Is it the lack of registration, license, property tax, low(er) cost and low federal oversight?
Up is Up. If it's wanting to be UP then there are many options that can be operated from the trunk of your car and stored in a small apartment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_paragliding
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragliding
http://www.apexballoons.com/ultralights/

There a number of kits that can be built in a vary small space and final assembled in a small hangar. Building, for some, is as much fun as flying
My recommendations ... put some $ aside. Research what flying options you have in your area including flying clubs, ( remember Up is UP) connect with those groups , take intro flights, find what suits your interest and budget, Find and invest in a compatible instructor. Expect to invest in your training; ~ these are very broad numbers. Ultralight - 2-3K, Sport pilot 3-4K, private pilot 7-10K, I have no training $ info on balloons, or paragliders but expect them to be in the 1-3K range.
Connect with your local eaa chapter(s). Visit AirVenture this year - invest in your education.

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Originally Posted by arrowheadHD

I've been fighting the urge to write this, hoping that I could "wing it" on my own, but apparently the time has come to man up and ask for help from the masses.

After weeks of research on the new-to-me subject of part 103 ultralights, I have narrowed my choices down to a Quicksilver Sport or Spirit. I sent an email to Ultralight of Iowa requesting information on said aircraft, but have yet to hear back (hopefully they're staying busy.)

Really hoping someone here can help me out with a "this is what ya gotta do"... From ordering an aircraft, and getting it home, to finding general flight instructions (no UL flyers that I know of in the area).

The whole ordeal has become slightly overwhelming (to the point of hardly knowing what questions to ask), and I really don't want that to deter me from my goal of flight.

Any help you knowledgeable folks could offer up would be greatly appreciated.



Bryan

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You said nothing about contacting the Quick Silver dealers. I've provided a link to their site which lists "New Flyer Info, Dealer Locations etc." There is lots of good advice here but coming up with "YOUR" answers for the many excellent questions posed are key. I recently gave up flying my Ultralight after nearly 30 years because I moved so a place where finding a safe place to fly was just too difficult, or to be more specific all the emergency landing areas are filled with alligators (The Everglades). One question I didn't see was about what you want to do in the air and where you may want to go when you do get into the air. Doing much of anything fun in the air or getting anywhere quick is pretty much out of the question with paragliders.

I appreciate all the responses, but rather than waste anyone else's time, we could probably let this thread die.

I've run into a few road blocks, and at this point it would not be practical for me to move forward with any plan of getting off the ground.

Take care, and fly safe.

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Originally Posted by arrowheadHD

I appreciate all the responses, but rather than waste anyone else's time, we could probably let this thread die. I've run into a few road blocks, and at this point it would not be practical for me to move forward with any plan of getting off the ground.

Take care, and fly safe.

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Arrowhead-
For the sake of others wanting to get into flying an ultralight, what were the biggest roadblocks that you ran into [other than budget]?

I suspect the title of your thread will have others coming to it to learn from your experience in their efforts to get off the ground. Knowing what roadblocks they might face will be helpful to them.

Thanks!

-Buzz

I think in the end, just about anything can be boiled down to finances... but, between finding a plane that I could afford, a trailer, hangar, and training, I realized I'm not as prepared for this as I need to be.

Not giving up; not by a long shot... Just taking my time to do things right, rather than jumping in head first.
I found myself getting overwhelmed by the situation, and really needed to step back.




I do have to give a public shout-out to Buzz, who has been beyond helpful with this whole thing. It's rare to meet someone so willing to put themselves out there to help a complete stranger.

Arrowhead,
I understand. Like most reading this $ is always an issue. It is THE biggest obstacle to flight. I offered in my prior posting a paradigm shift and an opportunity. The latter first: Make AirVenture a priority visit for you this year. You are not that far away. Spend time in the UL section and see what might be there. Consider a paradigm shift from your fixed wing aircraft view. There are so many options that are reasonably priced and easily transported in a mid sized car. As I have said before - UP is UP. There are so many ways to be UP. Including muiti ownership and clubs. If there is fire in the belly there is a way... UP

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Originally Posted by arrowheadHD

I think in the end, just about anything can be boiled down to finances... but, between finding a plane that I could afford, a trailer, hangar, and training, I realized I'm not as prepared for this as I need to be.

Not giving up; not by a long shot... Just taking my time to do things right, rather than jumping in head first.
I found myself getting overwhelmed by the situation, and really needed to step back.

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You came to the right place to get advice on how to approach getting into the sport. It's sometimes more involved than just picking out what ultralight to fly.

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Originally Posted by arrowheadHD

I do have to give a public shout-out to Buzz, who has been beyond helpful with this whole thing. It's rare to meet someone so willing to put themselves out there to help a complete stranger.

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Just trying to help keep the "Association" in EAA!
:)
-Buzz

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Originally Posted by jamesofthenorthwest

........ Doing much of anything fun in the air or getting anywhere quick is pretty much out of the question with paragliders.

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OK - not "getting anywhere quick" in a paraglider is true but not fun ----- NO WAY ----- Paragliders are one of the most fun aircrft I have flown.

AeroheadHD -
Don't give up to quickly. Read "See How It Flies" online and keep up the interest. You will find there are some very reasonable oppertunities if you are patient and persistant and ready when the oppertunity presents itself.

Keep looking and researching, some day we might pass in the sky! Don't let your dream die just yet.

You might want to look at the Affordaplane site. Very simple construction. Electronic plans and manual are downloaded for $7. http://affordaplane.com/

Finding Belite Ultra Cub Builders and/or Flyers. I'm currently building a Belite Ultra Cub. Needed information is difficult to come by. I don't see any recent posts. Any Belite Ultra Cub builders out there building or flying Belite Ultra Cub in 2017 or 2018 ?

Dee