Next Project

So I’m starting to look for my next project and would like y’alls advice. I want something fun to build and fly around the local area (no x/c capability necessary as my RV-10 handles that mission in spades). So here’s my criteria:
- day VFR
- 2 seats, configuration doesn’t matter
- high or bi-wing
- little or no welding required (at least by me)

I’ve done considerable research on the Pietenpol and l like it a lot as it fills all my squares. However being an RV guy I’m just not that knowledgeable about other makes/models that might be good candidates for me to consider. To be clear I’m not simply asking for a list of planes that fits my criteria— I can do that myself. I’m looking for opinions from builders/ owners that goes beyond a simple list. Thanks in advance!

BI-PLANE PROJECT• $19,900 • Modified Murphy Renegade bi-plane project. Well beyond the quick build stage, including engine, for less than new quick build kit. Modified to accept 120 hp engine. All mods approved by designer. 90% done. (Assembled & Rigged). Can be finished as 1 or 2 place. Needs wiring, instruments/avionics, cowling, covering and paint. I have some instruments but not all. Nav/strobe lights, Jabiru 3300A, 120 hp engine, 250 hrs TTSN. Sensenich prop. I have built 8 amateur-built aircraft, several of which were award winners. I have too many projects and can't seem to find time for this one. Easily meets all LSA parameters.
Pictures on request.....Mel Asberry, Tech Counselor, Flt Advisor, DAR • Farmersville, TX USA • Telephone: 972-784-7544 • <rvmel(at)icloud.com>

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Originally Posted by melann

BI-PLANE PROJECT• $19,900 • Modified Murphy Renegade bi-plane project. Well beyond the quick build stage, including engine, for less than new quick build kit. Modified to accept 120 hp engine. All mods approved by designer. 90% done. (Assembled & Rigged). Can be finished as 1 or 2 place. Needs wiring, instruments/avionics, cowling, covering and paint. I have some instruments but not all. Nav/strobe lights, Jabiru 3300A, 120 hp engine, 250 hrs TTSN. Sensenich prop. I have built 8 amateur-built aircraft, several of which were award winners. I have too many projects and can't seem to find time for this one. Easily meets all LSA parameters.
Pictures on request.....Mel Asberry, Tech Counselor, Flt Advisor, DAR • Farmersville, TX USA • Telephone: 972-784-7544 • <rvmel(at)icloud.com>

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Mel, I appreciate the post and you need no introduction or bona fides as I frequent VAF. Unfortunately I’m not ready to pull the trigger on a project as I’m in the research phase and I don’t want a partially completed kit. This time the building journey will be just as important as the completed plane which was not the case with my slow-build RV-10 where building was much more simply a means to an end.

No Problem. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

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Originally Posted by Auburntsts

So I’m starting to look for my next project

I’ve done considerable research on the Pietenpol and l like it a lot as it fills all my squares. !

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Good Choice...
One thing to also consider... a re-build... Something flying that could use a good going over.
That will be my thoughts after I finish my second plane ( Kolb Firestar II and Wittman Buttercup )

All the parts are already there...and you'll get the repairman's cert...

Gotta Fly...
.

Todd, I can sell you an Aeronca project, a set of Hatz plans with some wing ribs and most of the center section parts, and/or a set of Piet plans. Unless I already sold the Piet plans.

FYI, I forget where, but someone posted an ad about a couple of nice Hatz projects in Texas recently.

Personally, I think the Piet would be a bit tight for you and the bride. Given where you live, you might think about a Breezy.

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Originally Posted by planecrazzzy

Good Choice...
One thing to also consider... a re-build... Something flying that could use a good going over.
That will be my thoughts after I finish my second plane ( Kolb Firestar II and Wittman Buttercup )

All the parts are already there...and you'll get the repairman's cert...

Gotta Fly...
.

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Only one Repairman's Certificate can be issued per E-AB aircraft----it is issued to a particular individual and is not transferable.

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Originally Posted by planecrazzzy

Good Choice...
One thing to also consider... a re-build... Something flying that could use a good going over.
That will be my thoughts after I finish my second plane ( Kolb Firestar II and Wittman Buttercup )

All the parts are already there...and you'll get the repairman's cert...

Gotta Fly...
.

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Nope. As I posted above, I have zero interest in taking over someone else's project and that includes a rebuild of an already flying aircraft. I will look into the Firestar and Buttercup to see if they fill my squares compared to the Piet.

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Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright

Todd, I can sell you an Aeronca project, a set of Hatz plans with some wing ribs and most of the center section parts, and/or a set of Piet plans. Unless I already sold the Piet plans.

FYI, I forget where, but someone posted an ad about a couple of nice Hatz projects in Texas recently.

Personally, I think the Piet would be a bit tight for you and the bride. Given where you live, you might think about a Breezy.

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Kyle, we spent a lot of time pouring over the Piets at this year's Osh and talked at some length to William Wynne (Piet and Corvair engine guru) and I'm not concerned about the Aircamper's dimensions. Having said that, I have the luxury of time to do my due diligence and see what else might be better than the Piet as a project. What are your thoughts on the Hatz as far as building and flying?

Todd,

I looked at Piets and several others as well. I needed to stay LSA, so the full size Hatz was out, and the LSA version was just too new for me. Plus, I wasn't welding nor shelling out $15K for a pre-welded fuselage. I liked the Piet, but really wanted a biplane. I eventually settled on a Fisher Celebrity. All wood, LSA, 2-holer although I'm told the front cockpit is only for small adults or kids. Pretty wide range of engine choices, and can be plans built or you can order a kit or partial kits. My progress has been slow due to competing interests and projects, but I'll finish it some day.

I didn't build my Hatz so I can't comment there other than to say it's very conventional construction, but it's a fairly large plane so there's a lot to build. But flying it always puts a smile on my face. Flies a lot like a Cub, just more agile (some have compared it to a clipwing Cub but I've never flown one of those).

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Originally Posted by Auburntsts

What are your thoughts on the Hatz as far as building and flying?

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Lots of new skills will need to be acquired, since you're an aluminium airplane builder. Wood skills for the wings, welding and steel beating skills for the fuselage, empennage, and a thousand fittings (including the gear). And then you're into fabric covering...

It'll be a big project - it wasn't designed for ease of manufacture, although you can buy a welded fuselage and other subassemblies if that's a preferred route for you.

I can't comment on the flying part...

If I was looking for low and slow with a passenger, another airplane I'd look at would be the LSA Bearhawk. Good performance on low HP, and gives you all of the benefits of a Champ/Cub. And weldments are available.

Or you could go the other way and look at the Airdrome Aeroplanes Sopwith Tabloid, (side by side), Schnider or Nieuport 12 (both tandem).

Both come with a welded fuselage, but the rest is tube-and-gusset, and of course fabric covered.

The Tabloid is very sedate in the air (as are all of Robert's designs); the very first full scale N12 is being built, but should similarly be gentle to the pilot.

https://airdromeaeroplanes.com/

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Originally Posted by Frank Giger

Or you could go the other way and look at the Airdrome Aeroplanes Sopwith Tabloid, (side by side), Schnider or Nieuport 12 (both tandem).

Both come with a welded fuselage, but the rest is tube-and-gusset, and of course fabric covered.

The Tabloid is very sedate in the air (as are all of Robert's designs); the very first full scale N12 is being built, but should similarly be gentle to the pilot.

https://airdromeaeroplanes.com/

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Frank,
I went on the Airdrome aircraft website and it listed three 2-place aircraft: the Sopwith Schneider, Tabloid, and Baby, but no Nieuport 12. None of the data sheets for the Sopwiths listed the seating configuration but on the master aircraft data sheet for all of their aircraft there a notation for these 3 that said “2 seat SBS”. I take that to mean side-by-side. All 3 have a 35” wide cockpit so if they are all truly side by side that’s a real tight fit for 2 normal sized people—tighter than I find acceptable. Do you have something that indicates that any of these models actually has tandem seating?

Some companies that come to mind that have models that meet your criteria are:

Zenith Aircraft http://www.zenithair.net/
Murphy Aircraft https://www.murphyair.com/
Fisher Flying Products https://fisherflying.com/
Kitfox Aircraft https://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/
Just Aircraft https://justaircraft.com/
Kolb Aircraft https://kolbaircraft.com/
RANS Aircraft https://www.rans.com/

Yep, Schnider is side-by-side. And yes, it's tight.

The Nieuport 12 isn't on the sheet or the site, as it's a new offering, with Russ Turner building the first one.

It's very full sized and tandem.

The Tabloid is about as comfortable as a Cessna 150 for two "regular sized" people.

However, Robert is aces when it comes to modification. Widening the fuselage wouldn't be a problem.

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Originally Posted by Frank Giger

Yep, Schnider is side-by-side. And yes, it's tight.

The Nieuport 12 isn't on the sheet or the site, as it's a new offering, with Russ Turner building the first one.

It's very full sized and tandem.

The Tabloid is about as comfortable as a Cessna 150 for two "regular sized" people.

However, Robert is aces when it comes to modification. Widening the fuselage wouldn't be a problem.

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Building gives you time to lose weight ,
My goal was 24 lbs. , because of the extra weight my 0-235 L2C had over the 0-200
I lost a little more , and its probably better for my health .

Most pilots seem to keep their weight in check , especially in the older days.
But this sounds like a shoulder to shoulder issue , 40" in my Buttercup seems snug.
You might pooch out of the cockpit in those Bi-planes (shoulder area) ?

Gotta Fly...

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Originally Posted by planecrazzzy

Building gives you time to lose weight ,
My goal was 24 lbs. , because of the extra weight my 0-235 L2C had over the 0-200
I lost a little more , and its probably better for my health .

Most pilots seem to keep their weight in check , especially in the older days.
But this sounds like a shoulder to shoulder issue , 40" in my Buttercup seems snug.
You might pooch out of the cockpit in those Bi-planes (shoulder area) ?

Gotta Fly...

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i’m 5’11” 180 so yeah it’s a shoulder thing. I learned to fly in a 152 so anything smaller for a side by side isn’t desirable. My RV-10 has spoiled me I suppose. I don’t mind a tight single seat cockpit but I don’t want to rub shoulders or anything else with anyone while flying so I guess that means I’m going to focus on tandem seats. I’ve looked at all the models folks have posted in this thread and the Airdrome aircraft are the only ones that are intriguing and I’m going to do more research on them. Nothing else scratches my itch. I like the Hatz but it’s more work than I’m willing to do at this point. I’d say the Piet is still the front runner but I’m keeping my mind open as I continue my education.