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I am not sure who will see this if any but is there any way I could find some mechanics looking for an apprentice/ helper? I am currently looking at getting my A&P but I don't have the time or the money to do it through a school. I am a student pilot with a decent amount of mechanical knowledge and a quick learner with machinery/vehiclesMy location is Neenah Wisconsin right near brennand airport
that's a hard route to go. It also takes a long time. Have you looked up the requirements in the FAR's for how many hours you are required to get? It's a lot and will take years. Your going to have to keep track of everything you do end up doing in a good logbook.
Yeah I realize that, it's not something I want to do for a job right away,i just want a sort of "kick off" and some experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by uavmx
Assuming that you don't want to leave your area, then you just have to go start slumming around the airports in your home town. Start asking to help. Again, just track everything you do in a logbook.
If you build an airplane, the hours spent on each assembly and subsystem count towards your A&P training if you document those hours and the topics. I know an individual who built 4 airplanes and the FAA accepted the record of tasks completed to approve his taking the A&P practical exam.
And he won an award for workmanship at OSH with one airplane and he campaigned the Pitts he built to the IAC Advanced Championship. Not bad checkpoints along the way to his A&P certificate.
Best of luck,
Wes
N78PS
Orion, If you take the apprentice route, I suggest you visit your local FSDO and talk to a ASI before starting. See what kind of documentation they are going to require to issue the authorization. Just keeping a logbook of your activites might not cut it.
Have you investigated any Part 147 schools?
In Louisiana, I was able to attend a state funded technical college and my A&P certificate cost ~$700. I attended school while working a full time job. The tuition at a commerical A&P school can top $30k so it pays to look around and see what's out there.
I may be biased but I recommend a Part 147 school over the apprentice route. It's faster and less expensive.
Might as well get started right - go to FAR 65 and read 65.71 thru 65.79 - They will tell you exactly what you will need to know and do.
I did my A&P by civil experience and it only took me a quick 16 years. It is more than just logging hours, the type of experience is also required. The hard part is putting together a package of documentation *and* getting your local FSDO to buy off. FAA Order 8900.1, Volume 5, Chapter 5, Paragraph 5-1135(G) defines EXACTLY these requirements.
In short you will have to show verifiable experience in 50% of the subject areas listed in 14 CFR 147 appendices B, C, and D. These appendices correspond to the General, Airframe, and Powerplant. Practical experience must include documentary evidence with the procedures, practices, materials, tools, machine tools, and equipment used in maintaining and altering airframes and powerplants. The total experience required is 30 months for the A&P when applied for together. This means a total of 4800 hours.
Upon satisfactory documentation of these requirements, the FSDO will issue two FAA form 8610's. These are your approval to take the 3 written exams (general, airframe, and powerplant) and the Oral & Practical exam. The O&P exam is conducted by a DME - Designated Mechanic Examiner. My O&P exam took a little over 9 hours. The DME said it typically takes 9 - 12 hours for the exam.
Get to know your local FSDO! Start attending IA seminars and FAASTeam maintenance events to meet the FAA inspectors. Tell them your plan, get to know them, and that way it will not be a surprise when you show up asking for this very difficult to obtain sign off.
Good Luck!
Good information above, I will add to start logging all of your work. I just got approval for my A&P after 25 years of working on the side!! The Feds love documentation, I brought pages and pages of detailed information on all the aircraft I had worked on, along with pictures, that satisfied my inspector.
As for the homebuilt time counting it appears it may be inspector or FSDO dependent. I was 198 hours short of the required 4800 hours and wanted to use the 807 hours of time I have building my RV8 to count for that remainder, which that time is signed off by an I.A.. At first my inspector (Portland, ME.) said that he would not allow homebuilt time to coun at all. I brought FAA order 8900.1 chapter 5 section 5 out and we discussed the section where it says time spent in the maintenance of experimental aircraft will be based upon its merit, I pointed out that I wasn't looking for a one to one on that time but for it to count as 1/4 time, he finally agreed and I got the authorization to take the tests.
Probably the fastest route thought the civilian experience method is to find a local shop that will hire you and work under an I.A., but your not going to get paid much at all.
Like most things in aviation you have to starve for the first few years until you move up the ranks.
Hope it works out for you,
Russell
As someone else suggested, check with your local feds. Mine will NOT accept my homebuilt building experience.
ditto.Quote:
Originally Posted by gmatejcek
Given the results of 11-6-2012 I have decided to get off the treadmill that has of late had me running on more and more of an incline all the while telling moochers what an S*B I was for making money. So I pulled the plug(s), banked MY money, retired and will now start A&P skool in January.
I had one of the IA's I've done work for in the last 6 years call the Baton Rouge FSDO about experience requirements but as stated above they would only accept 50% of the work requirements thru an affidavit, the other 50% MUST be logged (pay slips, etc.). As I never thought of being an A&P until a few years ago I never kept a log of things I've done (hard to document being a kid helping dad gut a few TBM's to turn 'em into slurry bombers or helping dad with the "kidney tanks" on the Bell 47's he used for crop spraying (thank you Lauel Koll). Even more recently I've worked for 3-4 A&P's as they needed me never giving a thought about needing to document the time! Stupid yes, had I considered gettin the ticket.
So my options were to get the IA to do an affidavit and put a BS book of work records together for the other half or just grind it out in school...as luck would have it I now have the money, the time and the approval of the House Commander (a CPA...her life is about to get VERY interesting...) to go and get the formal training at the Southern University Annex A&P School @ DTN and get my certificates! As soon as that occurs 13-15 months (day and night classes) I want to get a Sheepskin from Rotax...
Aside from the Rotax school this means I'll be spending all day (and a few nights) at DTN and between classes I can fly or fix or help out as needed. I've built a "pilot cave" inside my hanger with all the most of the requirements of living; microwave, fridge, TV etc. to give me a place to go between classes.
Working on aircraft ain't all that fun but taking something broken and making it whole is rewarding to a special few...
Chris
Good luck with your training. I'm also starting my training in January, with Teterboro School of Aeronautics. Sucks that you didn't keep records of your experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiperbiper
Good choice Chris.
I've done pretty much what you are except I couldn't quit my job so I worked my 12 hour night shift and went to CGCC another 7 hours. It was brutal but A&P school was fun. I went to CPS and took all the ROTAX courses as well afterwards. The Rotax courses are pretty expensive and are really more of a credential than practical experience. The classes are just 2 days each so while you will take a 912 down to the case it's not as much experience as you eill get on a lycoming or Cont in A&P school. Still, what's better than airplane motors?
EAA's Weeks hangar is just down the road from you & a great place to start on the road to an A&P licence. Our latest newsletter has a great article in it by Fred Stadler, titled a Winter Alternative (on page 6) which is all about volunteering at Weeks.
http://www.252.eaachapter.org/2012%2...,%20EAA252.pdf
Ditto martymayes comments. I bit the bullet and enrolled in a state supported school in Alabama back in the 80's. Tuition and housing (out of state) was $500 per QUARTER! Cheaper than not going to school! You can't live under a bridge now that cheap. Cost included one meal a day! Graduated two and a half years later with A&P and private license only $6,000 student loan debt. Look around, you might have to relocate temporarily but a couple of years goes by quickly. Besides the type of immersion learning and fellowship offered by these schools is a great way to get started.
Mr. Marty,
I know this is from an older post but I too live in Louisiana (55 miles north of New Orleans) and would VERY much like to do the same thing you did if it is still possible? Any and all help with this would be most appreciated sir.
Clyde Oyler
Yellowhammer
I think that's a great idea Clyde. Unfortunately, I don't think Delgato CC still offers A&P training which would be great for you. Too bad, that was one of the oldest A&P schools in the country. I think you'd have to hike it over to Lafayette, which is where I went to A&P school, now called South Louisiana Community College. That program is well supported as PHI and the other helicopter support companies need a steady stream of A&P's. I haven't lived in Louisiana in over 15 yrs so my info might be out of date.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowhammer
I strongly agree with Marty, the Part 147 route is preferable. There are public schools that have these programs for high school students. Some of these public schools have Adult Aviation Programs, usually a night class offering. These programs for adults are dwindling so the next choices are junior colleges but the cost is much more. Then comes the commercial A&P schools which can be the quickest route, 20 months and you have your mechanics license but as Marty states $30+ dollars.Quote:
Originally Posted by martymayes
I lucked out and found a nearby school (Toledo Public Schools)with just that, a evening adult program attending evenings for 30 months, school schedule (summers off) 5 semesters. Started in fall of ‘2007 and finished in 2010. It was a breeze if you just did the homework. NOW! There is good news. Cost was $12k. One third the cost of commercial. But I was retired so I had the time. Did you hear me? I was retired!! Older. So there is more good news, I got a senior discount!
These were the lady’s exact words. “ Your a senior, so you get 1/2 Off! Whoa, $6K.” I fooled around and waited almost until my written exams were to expire, then took my Oral & Practical in early 2012. I really won out.
Unfortunately they discontinued the Adult program in 2013.
Now I heard they have continued the high school program but haven’t heard of any Adult classes. Or any other schools around southeastern Michigan.
This program is a godsend to a high school student that is willing to apply themselves (do the homework) so when they graduate high school they also get an A&P at the same time by passing the written exams and completing the Oral & Practical. Just think, you received your diploma, and your an A&P, and you’re 18 years old. You just gotta kickstart!
One of the young guys who really was motivated finished the program and found employment on Maui working on commuter aircraft. Look at his opportunities. Darn he never got the chance to do fast food. Lol.
Everyone is hearing about the "pilot shortage" going on, it's nothing compared to the current A&P shortage in the US. A young kid that wants to work on airplanes can write his own ticket. There are opportunities out the wazoo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jben
So you can build a plane and apply the time for an A&P. What if I only want the P? Building a plane powered by an automobile engine gives said person zero Jet/ turbine experience. So how can I do the P, just like a person can the A&P? And who do you contact in the FAA to find out?
Might want to check with the FSDO to ascertain if experience with auto conversions will count toward the 18 months practical experience for a mechanic certificate w/ powerplant rating. Just having the calender experience does not mean one can pass then requisite testing. I had to demonstrate several task with turbine engines during my powerplant oral and practical tests. Had I not known anything about turbine engines it would have been an unsat or pink slip as it's called and I would have been sent home empty handed. FWIW, one of my A&P school instructors became a DME (examiner) and he said the highest failure rate was military guys with no prep because they did not know anything about reciprocating engines. Second highest fail group were people testing on practical experience. Simply do not get a well rounded education that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by enginesrus
The contact at the FSDO would be the maintenance inspector on duty. Call tell the receptionist / operator that answers that you want to speak to the maintenance inspector on duty, if s/he is busy they will call back. At the East MI FSDO, the front line manager is an A&P and all around good guy so if that happens to be your FSDO that's who you can talk to.