Printable View
Can my 1941 J4A fly this summer without an ELT as long as I stay within 50 (or XX?) miles of the home airport? What are the present FAA ELT requirements? I want to postpone buying one as long as possible until the new 406 MHz units are more popular. Or can used 121.5 MHz be grandfathered into a "new" airplane?
Unless something has changed, you can fly without an ELT if you have a single seat airplane or if you stay within 50 miles of where the aircraft is based. If you don't like those limitations, you're legal if you install a 121.5 ELT. The issue (as you know) is that the satellites are not monitoring that freq, so your 121.5 ELT doesn't have the utility it once did...
You mean you're waiting until the price comes down? What's your cutoff price? I ask this because I have a friend who is parting out a non-flyable C172 and may still have the transponder to part with. Let me know and I'll see if I can nab it for you. He owes me a favor anyhow....Quote:
I want to postpone buying one as long as possible until the new 406 MHz units are more popular.
Steveinindy - I'm not flying yet - and J4As are a two place aircraft. I expect that the summer will be used for shakedown flights etc. I also have absolutely no electrical system.
THX Steve for the transponder offer though...........
It sounds like the 50 mile rule will work for me - for quite a while. THX Kyle.
Not a problem. I try to look out for my fellow pilots- despite some people on here thinking I'm just here to be a pain in the ***- and the one thing I really dislike is the idea of avoidably being stranded, hurt and unable to go for help after a crash. I wouldn't want to be in that situation myself and I don't like to think about things happening to folks that I wouldn't want to happen to me.
Hmmm...that would be a pickle then. Perhaps a personal locator beacon that transmits in the 406 frequency would be an option?Quote:
I also have absolutely no electrical system.
You can operate without any mileage restriction for 90 days.Quote:
Originally Posted by nrpetersen
Has the airplane ever had an ELT installed? While you can't do a "new installation" TS0 C-91 ELT anymore, if the airplane once had a C-91 ELT you can keep it installed until you want/need something different. I sold two C-91 ELT's on ebay with very active bidding so apparently a lot of C-91 ELT's are getting dataplate refurbs to keep them in operation. Guess some folks don't want a TSO C-91a or TSO C126 ELT for now.
14 CFR 91.207 is the regulation that you should read. It makes no reference to 90 days. It does refer to an ELT not being required for "Aircraft while engaged in training operations conducted entirely withing a 50 nautical mile radius of the airport from which such local flight operations began".
Free advice on Federal regulations on an internet forum has no value when speaking with an FAA inspector. Give the reg a read and see if you fit.
Best of luck,
Wes
With a little encouragement, most people can find 90 day relief for an ELT in 91.207(f)(10).Quote:
Originally Posted by WLIU
This is an important part of this regulation that most people miss or gloss over. Just because you're only flying within 50 miles of home base doens't mean that you don't need an ELT. Only those aircraft that are engaged in training operations are eligible for this exemption. If you're not specifically involved in flight training operations you need an ELT even if you never go more than 50 miles from home.Quote:
Originally Posted by WLIU
Update - My 1941 J4-A has never had an ELT installed according to the log books so I'm not even eligible for a 121.5 type ELT. It last flew in 1975. For that matter, I have not flown tail dragger for 40 years so I will need a lot of instruction - especially at 73.
But I am trying to delay the hit of a 406 MHz ELT after being hit for a new Marvel $chebler carb, new exhau$t, lite weight $tarter, and both mag$ etc.:eek:
THX Guys!
Sounds like flight training to me. The 50 mile exemption should work for a while. I don't think the 90 day exemption applies because an ELT was never installed. Eventually you'll have to spring for a 406 ELT. Last time I looked, ACK Technologies was still the cheapest at $600 from Spruce. Many people would regard a 406 personal locator beacon as safe, but it's not a legal replacement for an ELT.
406 PLB doesn't automatically activate in the event of a sudden acceleration, does it?
No, you have to manually activate it. It's "safe" only in certain scenarios.
Must be an interesting story there because as of Dec 1973 operating rules made it illegal to operate an aircraft without an ELT. One of the few exceptions was an aircraft without an ELT could be ferried to a location where one could be installed. There was a period in the late '70's where ELT's could be removed due to a battery issue, which evolved into the current 90 day deferral for no ELT installed.Quote:
Originally Posted by nrpetersen
If a serviceable c91 ELT could be found for cheap, I'd install it but looking at the big picture, probably best to bite the bullet and install a c126 ELT.
I applied for a ferry permit once and the faa inspector produced guidance for "inspected aircraft and found no ELT installed," valid 90 days from the log entry under the current rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by MEdwards
I'm in need of some tail dragger instruction- even at 31. ;) Heck, I'd just settle for a ride! I really, really love the real Cubs and Aeroncas.Quote:
Update - My 1941 J4-A has never had an ELT installed according to the log books so I'm not even eligible for a 121.5 type ELT. It last flew in 1975. For that matter, I have not flown tail dragger for 40 years so I will need a lot of instruction - especially at 73.
....and for this we can thank Don Jonz, a dickweed bush pilot with no regard for safety. If you're going to do something of questionable safety, it's best not to do it with two US congressmen on board.Quote:
Must be an interesting story there because as of Dec 1973 operating rules made it illegal to operate an aircraft without an ELT.
Excellent. A good case for "All you have to do is ask." Unfortunately, there are other cases of "Don't ask the question if you might not want to hear the answer." The trick is figuring out which of those applies to any given situation!Quote:
Originally Posted by martymayes
As MEdwards pointed out, no the PLBs don't have to trigger automatically. However, the benefit of the PLB is primarily for those who are simply forced to do an ditching or something else that requires them to leave the aircraft instead of waiting with it until rescuers arrive.Quote:
No, you have to manually activate it. It's "safe" only in certain scenarios.
Not to derail the thread, but there is a related rumor I have heard repeatedly that the 406 ELTs are also not required to have a crash activation mechanism (where these things get started.....who freaking knows). Part of the problem is that people need to take a look at more then just the TSO for the 406 ELTs (which does not stipulate a requirement for crash activation). The FAA simply stated that the newer generation of ELTs must comply with the various RTCA standards that the older generation were required to comply with.
Specifically:.Quote:
RTCA DO-204 (Hardware)
2.1.13 Automatic Fixed (AF) Equipment
Requires means to detect the occurrence of a crash and automatically activate the transmitter, aural and visual indication to the flight crew of activation, controls available from the pilot's position, and means to rigidly mount the equipment to the aircraft structure
Next time you are in the Carlisle area, look me up. Free ride over Gettysburg battlefields and Three Mile Island....I'll even let you drive a bit...Quote:
Originally Posted by steveinindy
That's a deal!Quote:
Originally Posted by rosiejerryrosie
Ditto for the Birmingham (Alabama) area, Steve. We'll cruise up and down the Coosa River out of PLR in a Champ.
Sorry for the further derailment, but I am seriously thinking of putting in a PLR in a pouch on my harness (single seat, no ELT).
Sweet! :) Lunch will be on me or Kat....depends on which one of us remembers to grab cash that day.Quote:
Ditto for the Birmingham (Alabama) area, Steve. We'll cruise up and down the Coosa River out of PLR in a Champ.
I was thinking of installing the OnStar system from an old GM auto. It keeps track of where I am and even talks to me. Problem is, it would ask if I'm OK after each of my terrible landings. ;-)
LMAO. I'm pretty sure the OnStar operators would get a little tired of that! ;)Quote:
Problem is, it would ask if I'm OK after each of my terrible landings