Where were the 20's & 30's big round engine vintage aircraft?
It is no secret that the attendance of pre-war non-warbird classic/antique aircraft at AirVenture 2011 was off dramatically. I was there and saw first hand the lack of representation. Sitting with my Waco I was asked "Where is everybody?" more than once by members of the public. We could have had a pick up football game in the empty rows of vintage parking normally filled with these grand old airplanes. I vigorously shared my opinions about this and was asked to join an ad hoc committee to examine this issue. I have some strong ideas on what I believe needs to happen to reverse this alarming trend and I am not going to share them here, yet. I do want to hear ideas from others on how to address this issue and turn this disturbing trend around. Thanks in advance for your input. The question; "How do we get the pre-war non-warbird classics back to AirVenture?"
Be ready to enter 7500 on the transponder!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jim Clark
What should EAA do to get the big round engine pre-war non-warbird crowd to come back to AirVenture and fill the prime spots next to the Theater in the Woods with 20's and 30's aircraft that pilots and the public want to see?
Thanks Kyle for some specific things to think about.
Now I'll give this another try. If you're having trouble focusing your response here are a few suggestions on how you may start your comment:
"To encourage AirVenture attendance of big round engine pre-war non-warbird vintage aircraft EAA should (enter suggestion here)."
OR:
"I would bring my big round engine pre-war non-warbird aircraft to AirVenture if EAA would (enter suggestion here)."
How about a show within the OSHKOSH show?
I certainly have been disenchanted with some of the OSH goings on. I have also been disenchanted with Sport Aviation Magazine. Too often I read in the aviation press (not just Sport Aviation) articles about a aircraft that at the end do not detail performance specifications...and I think some might be lying when they do provide information. Thus we see "Ain't She Pretty" articles without getting into the meat; the capabilities of the aircraft. I get tired of this. (The re-sizing of the magazine's dimensions is another sad "story" but not for here).
One solution might be in the "Show Within the Show" with a more sectoralized structure...not just parking the vintage birds in a section but perhaps more of an effort there to make people feel appreciated. EAA has become quite the "big business" and surely people who bring their aircraft could be given a tank of fuel? EAA has been described by some as having become too greedy ($) and sadly many of those people have not renewed memberships.
I had been away from OSH for decades and then returned in 2009 and was astonished by the huge size...and the commercial atmosphere. Perhaps the commercialization IS a necessary evil, but the old roots - a big joyful gathering of the clan - seem to be missing.
I was gratified to find "some" of the old EAA spirit out on the flight lines and under the wings of aircraft (in the shade). I guess it is the "family picnic" atmosphere that is missing.
On my original point...could we make a "show within a show" a workable solution to get around the glitz and commercialism?
Everyone needs to feel welcome; feel they are part of the family. Perhaps show and discussions forums located right within the vintage parking area itself? I know there is the red barn, but perhaps there could be additional things directly on the vintage site? Oshkosh is a BIG place...and I understand one could only rent an electric transporter from EAA. You could not bring your own unless you could prove disability...but perhaps they worry about insurance with "too many" such vehicles? Nevertheless, it takes much time to traverse between sections of the field...and the population is aging...
Personally I think it is WONDERFUL if an aeroplane is really "airworthy". It does not have to be a "cream puff". If you have a good and airworthy aircraft you shold be MADE to feel "MOST WELCOME". What we do NOT need is a gathering of aircraft deemed "unworthy" uless they happen to be cream puffs! Deep pockets do not make one aircraft better than another. Perhaps prettier - but not better. Somehow I think we have put the cart before the horse, thereby losing our roots.
I sense something warm and fuzzy about an aircraft that is not just there to be pretty. Somehow that aircraft is more "REAL".
My fractured and devalued two cents worth.
Take a look at the November 1990 issue of Sport Aviation
Look at that, there is the Grand Champion Antique right there on the front cover, the Grand Champion Classic is on the back cover. There is a five page feature article on the Grand Champion Antique, a Stearman, with lots of cool pictures. There are eleven pages of pictures of antiques and classics from the show, many of them in the air over the lake --- real nice photos, most with the owner/pilot next to their plane with a huge grin. 5 page article on the Grand Champion Classic, a Cessna 195. An article on Bud Dake, The monocoupe Man, a 10 page article with cool photos. This issue is a keeper! Every year I looked forward to the November issue dedicated to antiques/classics, it was my favorite. I also enjoyed the October issue reporting on the homebuilts at Oshkosh and the December issue reporting on the warbirds in attendance. There was exciting coverage of the planes and pilots that took their planes to the show. Heck, if you flew your plane there, you might even see a picture of it in print someday.
Oh yes, and on page 6, the announcement that HG Frautschy was named the newest member of the editorial staff.
Now pull out the November 2011 issue for comparison. Right there on page 74 is part of the answer. The antique coverage is not about the ones that flew into Oshkosh, but rather the Waco's that flew into Mount Vernon. The simple fact is that the low key local/regional antique oriented fly-ins like this one, the one in Washington mentioned in an earlier post, that's where your attendees have gone. They are just more fun. That's who your competition is. Look at the large number that chose Blakesburg this year. Given a choice, flying your antique into Oshkosh just isn't at the top of people's list anymore.
I've been a member since 1979. And it seems to me that the visibility, image, promotion, and awareness of the antique/vintage community within the larger EAA family has steadily declined. Used to be balance between the homebuilts, antiques and warbirds. In, my opinion, this balance has been lost.
Agree that a grass landing capability would be attractive.
Agree with the need for daily fly-by of antiques and classics with announcer, in a good time spot. Announcer needs to provide colorful commentary about the breed, which could be provided by owners or type club, to create interest/excitement.
Agree that safety improvements, such as Cleveland wheels and brakes, should not subtract points in judging.
Need better daily internet coverage of the antiques/classics during the event. Many of us are unable to attend and would love to see timely daily updates of the antique activity. Upload pictures of all antiques as they are parked. How cool would that be. Cool for the owners too.
Need better post-event coverage of those that attended in the pages of Sport Aviation.
Work with type clubs and local chapters to specifically target owners within X mile radius (say 500 miles) of KOSH to fly the antiques in.
Well, that's it for now, the rain stopped so I'm heading to the hangar to work on the Monocoupe.
Dave
To encourage AirVenture attendance of Antiques...2 WORDS
To encourage AirVenture attendance of big round engine pre-war non-warbird vintage aircraft EAA should...
Fulfil the rumor heard at Oshkosh last year. Open a nice Grass Runway!
I am a 100hr Sport Pilot that is currently flying our Cub and Champ. We have a pretty good bunch of guys locally that for the most part, only fly between grass strips and local fly-ins. In a 15 mile radius there are probably 75-100 antique airplanes, not all flying of course. My dad has a Fleet 16B that we have spend 20+ years restoring, but he only flies it roughly 10-12 hours a year. He is a great pilot and has been flying a long time, but doesn't want to risk landing on hard surface. There are a lot of friends that have the same opinion and would never even consider it unless there was a grass runway option. I know this is probably a major undertaking, but Antique and Classic aircraft are just as important as War birds, Ultralights, and Homebuilts. Think of all of the people that got their 1st taste of aviation in a Cub or a Champ, Back when these airplanes were new and reasonable. Maybe it is time to dedicate more than just a parking area for the old airplanes. Maybe it's time to create an area similar to the ultralight area, where these airplanes can fly when they want, most of the time in the morning, or early evening when the winds are calm, and have a grass runway to do it on. I am 35 years old, but antique/classic aircraft are my main interest, restoring, learning the tips and tricks, the processes. We have started losing the "Experts" in the antique classic community, and with the numbers of airplanes diminishing at Oshkosh, so are the opportunities for younger people like myself to learn about these great airplanes, and what it takes to keep them going, and flying them. Look at Blakesburg and just imagine what Oshkosh could be with an area dedicated to Antiques. Move the Tri motor down there, offer biplane rides, old car display for (20's-40's cars) It could be an event within the event. And to comment on someone's earlier post, what does it matter if a wealthy individual pays a shop to restore an airplane and bring it there to win a trophy...for 1 thing, that is one more antique that would be in attendance, 2...the person that restored it probably has an antique that he or she was able to restore from the money received from the restoration. 3...that restoration opened up the opportunity for someone to get experience working on a antique airplane project... and so on and so on. Hope I haven't rambled on too much, this is just my opinion, I am not a writer by any means so my sentences and punctuation isn't the greatest, but I really hope someone reads this and shares my opinion or desire. Thanks for the opportunity to be able to express my opinion to the aviation community.
Sincerely,
Ryan Harter