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Last year I built a new home, next year (2012) I'm building a hanger and in 2013 I hope to build a Zenith CH-750 to put in the hanger. Do any of you have any experience, suggestions, cautions to offer about the CH-750? I'll also be looking for engine advice, hoping to do this for as low cost as possible, so am considering the new Viking Honda engine.
Thanks.
Nice airplane, but I would go with a Corvair engine from William Wynne for a powerplant: http://www.flycorvair.com/750.html
Tom
Wynne's done a great job. But who can argue with 1000's of spot on Honda FIT block cores and parts off the shelf available for years and years to come?Quote:
Originally Posted by Low and slow
It's so personal to choose a powerplant. There are already planes with 500 trouble free hours of flight with the Viking. That's 5 years worth of flying for most people, no matter how enthusiastic we might feel. You have enough time to make a choice that there will be many more hours flown with the Viking to help you decide about any longevity questions. As you undoubtedly know, Jan at Viking says it's important to use the 3 blade prop he recommends as it has the least vibration of all. If you don't like a 3 blade, that's a consideration. I personally would like to build a CH-750 one day, and have enough torque for practical float use with passenger. I think the Viking can do that for $12K and change re 24K for 'others'. My and my passengers lives are, of course, worth more than $12K, but every day/hour of flight with Vikings causes the risk to melt away. A Searey has made a number of flights this month, all successful. Sonex is next. Viking was invited to Mexico, MO for the last open house as a presenter.
I'm frothing...again, it's personal after lots and lots of investigation.
Other than that, be sure to make a smart and well considered transition into a high drag/high lift floaty plane like a -750. I hear that a 'regular' pilot can use up the runway in ground effect, or if attempting a stall landing (for some unknown reason?) has been very surprised when the plane, not just a -750, but any of its type, stops flying a bit further from the runway than one would like. All can be overcome, in my opinion, by good training.
Best to you and your decision/build,
Jackson
Hello...from mid-coast ME,
I just joined here yesterday and just noticed this thread. The Zeniths are one of the best. A couple of years ago I picked up some plans and tail kit but haven't had the time to really dig in and build. Being a diehard Chevy person,Waynes corvair conversions are very interesting. Honda products have a great reputation too. It depends on what your drawn to. It's neat to see folks from maine here.....as I haven't come across very many builders in my travels around. Randy
Thanks to all of you for the replies, especially to Jackson for the heads up on training to fly a CH-750. I'm a 300 hour pilot with 250 in a C-172, 25 in a C-150 and 25 in a RANS S-12. I always landed my C-172 with stall horn blaring and would fly my Rans literally onto the ground with half throttle. All three planes flew similar except the Rans was not heavy enough to glide to touchdown so half throttle was necessary to avoid a stall.
I was planning some training time in a CH-750 before I plunked down any money. With my limited experience and your comment, I think I'll do that sooner than later in the event I decide it is not the plane for me. Any other comments about CH-750 flying characteristics are welcome.
Thanks again.
Take a look at the Skykits Savannah VGW before you make a final purchase decision. I have the older Savannah VG and it is an excellent airplane. Note especially the quick build time.
Ralph
The Viking looks like a nice engine and I sincerely hope they are successful and wish them success. BTW - What happened to the Eggenfellner Subaru engine anyway? I am curious just how many Vikings are out there flying? How many actually have over 1,000 hours on them? There are hundreds of Corvairs flying around, some of them have been flying for decades, and many of those have over 1,000 hours on them. Parts are a non-issue as there were millions of Corvairs manufactured and original/new spare parts are readily available.
I have been an avid experimenter and follower of auto engine conversions for twenty years or so (have done a Corvair - no problems but going to re-do it now with the top of the line stuff from William Wynne which wasn't available when I did mine), and for my money, a William Wynne Corvair is the way to go for a 100 - 125 hp engine. The Viking looks viable and I really hope they work out. I'm looking forward to the day when a few of their engines have a thousand hours or so successful hours of history behind them.
It's interesting that Viking lists the Corvair weight as 267 which is over 30 lbs heavier than what today's builders who have actually weighed their engines - all up ready to fly - have reported.
Whichever engine and airframe you decide on, for a propeller, take a look at the Lipps design or the Whirlwind RV series propeller http://www.whirlwindaviation.com/props/rvseries.asp . According to Jack Norris http://www.propellersexplained.com/ , Whirlwind designed the propeller they way a propeller should be ("They get it."). The props designed by the late Paul Lipps (his son is taking over and carrying on from what I understand) make a lot of sense and are also flight proven.
Here's to success!
Tom
Am working on a 750 and hope to have it flying next spring. The plane has been a joy to assemble but I also have to consider a tight budget. My suggestions include that it is a very special plane with very specific capabilities which one should enjoy. Try not to make it do things that it was not designed to do and qualify yourself to fly this plane with its characteristics. Regarding suggestions for engines, I am of the group that prefers aircraft engines, not automotive, snowmobile, or chainsaw. Many proven aircraft engines with considerable time remaining show up on the market and can be had for a fraction of the cost of those other engines of lesser reliability. With some effort you will find a good used Continental, Lycoming, or in my case, a Franklin. Also since this airplane is low and slow with short take off and landing qualities not cross country capabilities, I suggest that you use simple steam gauges rather than the high dollar glass panels shown in the demo birds. Have fun with this simple LSA bird and then build a 650 with all the glass for your cross country adventures. But use the aircraft engine on the 650 also.
Motorles,
I've sent you a private message with my email address in order for me to learn more about what I may be getting myself into. I look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks.
I am finishing one now and it has been a great project. I went with the Jabiru 3300 and hope it will be a good choice. I took the engine school at Jabiru and would recommend that to anyone. Make sure you use the online builder's site.
Not sure if these have the power level you are looking for, but it appears they are in the 90-100hp range:
http://www.raven-rotor.com/
These are based on Suzuki car engines. In a little looking at what they offer, it appears to me that the donor engines are not common in the U.S., but there is ample supply with relatively low-miles from auto recyclers in Japan. There's millions of these Suzukis all over the world, but they were only sold in a couple of models for a couple of years in the U.S. - so best bet is probably to expect to buy a complete engine / PSRU from Raven.
Raven is out of Colorado, if that helps.
There is a Yahoo group for Suzuki engines in general "Flygeo" (there is also a gear-driven PSRU out of a Canadian company for these engines).
Low and slow, I just seen your post on wanting to build a CH 750 with a Viking engine, I am three quarters done with my CH 750 (fuselage, wings and tail section are done). At Airventure 2011 I put $6750 down for the Viking engine and cowling. I was first told delivery would be the end of November (4 months) when I put my money down, then two days later it was posted on the Viking forum that it would be the end of December (5 months), now I hear only 25 engines are done and are going to be sent out the first two weeks of January (nearly 6 months), I don't know if I am one of the 25, I am hoping, because I have been ready to install the engine for two months. My advice would be when you put money down on the CH 750, put money down on the Viking, so your not waiting like I am. The viking website says "if you would like your engine in 4 months to put 50% down" this should be updated, because as the demand increases, the delivery time does too. I should have put money down sooner but I wanted to see the engine at Airventure first and Jan has done alot of improvments to the engine in the last three months. The few people that are flying with the Viking seem to love it, so maybe the wait is worth it. although, patience is not one of my strong points, need to work on that. Kevin
rabbithunter69,
$6750 down at Airventure and still no engine? That certainly doesn't contribute to giving one a warm fuzzy feeling about it...
I hope it works out for you.
That's 50% or a bit more from what I hear. They have 25 engines ready to go to folks if I read their forum correctly (just google Viking engines).Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Torque
They just switched over from a black anodized finish which is non conductive to a gold anodized which IS conductive, so instrumentation probes, etc. are a much easier install. There's a good reason to wait.
Jan really doesn't over promise/under deliver from what I see. If one simply subscribes to the forum, they are updated daily on every possible situation concerning the engines.
Hey, I'm not a shill, not connected to these guys in ANY way, just think they might have an answer for homebuilders that need enough torque to get a ch750 off the water with a passenger for half the price of a Lycoming, at least, with the promise/hope of at least the same reliability if not more. Time will certainly tell, but experimentation is experimental, right? Within reason, of course. Just because 'Lycoming', or 'Continental' is stamped/cast in Aluminum doesn't mean it's infallible. But if money is no object, you may certainly want to get one.
I'll just keep following their 'footsteps', see how it goes (I think they have 400-500 hours on one install at least), and maybe the picture will be much clearer when I need the engine.
Jackson
Not one to throw cold water on this, but has anyone else notice that the Viking site makes no mention of being involved with Eggenfellner? Makes me wonder why....
Jan does not hide the fact that his is behind the Viking engine, in fact he does quite a few interviews (Aero-TV, Dan Johnson) at airshows. He also does not hide the fact that his Subaru conversions had its ups and downs. I think this will be a very popular engine if Jan can keep up the supply with the demand. He has said the Searey and Kitfox factorys are interested in installing the Viking in their airframes and Zenith even says it's an alternative to the other so called "aircraft" engines it recommends. Zenith seems to be open minded when it comes to the engines installed by their customers. There are alot of people including myself who would not be able to afford to build a CH 750 with a $25,000 engine. Kevin
I don't believe Jan's trying to deceive anyone or hide anything. Most people seem to know, or quickly learn, he's involved. I also don't believe his failings with the Subaru attempt were intentional. Not so well executed, perhaps, but he tried. Maybe this attempt will be a success. I hope it is.
The Viking is an unknown at this point in time, but the only way for it to become a known is for guys, who have the inclination, to fly with them. The naysayers and certified-only engine people should fly what they're comfortable with, but they should also not try to disparage or discourage those who don't share their opinion.
I have many thousands of hours flying certified engines - both airplanes and helicopters - and they've definitely had their problems and failures. I lean towards alternative engines, but certified engines are OK too. Either one can contribute towards killing you. An engine failure, normally (out of the dead man's curve), shouldn't be a catastrophic event, but then, I may just be old school...
If it were me, I'd opt for a Big Bore Corvair from William Wynne at about 2/3 the price, but I'm glad Rabbithunter is going for the Viking.
Rabbithunter, between now and when you receive your engine, you ought to be considering a prop. It could make all the difference. I suggest taking a look at the Jack Norris/(the late)Paul Lipps designs.
Wishing you and the Viking success!
Really, there's just too much speculation and third hand info re Viking here right now. The following 'tiny url' will take anyone interested to Jan's Viking engine forum of Dec 19: http://tinyurl.com/7frgyu8 It happens to include some great propeller info. Jan, by the way, pretty much insists on a particular 3 blade prop for minimum vibration and gearbox longevity - there's a prop test on that post.
Many questions will be answered, and anyone can email Jan privately or publicly and ask what they will. There is tons of info re different applications of the engine on the site and much more.
Again, every pilot/builder needs to research, make up their own mind, and take their own 100% responsibility for EVERY choice and action building or flying, right? And we all accept, or should, each pilot/builder's final decisions for themselves.
'Nuff said.
Clear skies, fair winds and Merry Christmas,
Jackson
I'm another CH750 builder about 40% complete and am seriously considering a Viking. I figure I'm about a year away, maybe a bit less, from choosing an engine. I also would also consider a O-235 or a Corvair.
I figure by the time I'm ready the hours will be out on the Viking and probably a lot more will be flying giving a good indication of any issues.
The Corvair is nice, but if the Viking turns out to be great (and so far it seems to be) then you're looking at a modern engine with water cooling, fuel injection etc... That will be hard to beat especially at the price!
I am a Mooney driver itching to build and fly something low and slow.
The CH-750 bug has really bitten me in the past several months. I drooled all over them at Oshkosh.
I don't know what it is about that ugly little airplane, but I really like it!
I was excited to find this thread just now. To those building 750s, keep posting pictures and status updates!
I am digging it. http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c5/woe...woohootrvl.gif
I knew you would be following this thread.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Goggles
My first thoughts on engine were an O-200, or maybe the O-235 mentioned above by Taiser.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanP
I like the idea of an aircraft engine in my aircraft.
But I know you're a Chevy guy. You'll probably want to experiment with a Corvair powerplant on your 750, huh? :D
I echo motories sentiments. I am building a CH 750 and have a used C90 for the engine. Although not new, these old aircraft engines are well proven power plants and you can get parts or service almost anywhere for them. I do not and will not pretend to be a power plant expert so if something needs serious attention, I know I will able to get parts and service quickly. Many of the alternative powerplants require unique accessories, mufflers and exhaust systems, for example. Not too many "used parts" available if needed, but the Continental or Lycoming support is a totally different story.
I picked the small Continental engine also since I can use a Cessnal 150 exhaust/muffler system which provides one of the better small airplane cabin heater systems and here in Alaska it really gets cold in the winter.
Good luck with your decisions. I do not regret buying the 750 kit.
Bill
Somebody was inquiring about pictures! My 750 touched down the first time this weekend on her main gear...feels like a milestone. I must say the build is going quite well. Been a few issues with the kit, most have been resolved well, a few have not but it's nothing that could not be overcome. I'm working about 1-2 hours most days after work, and maybe 10-15 hours on the week-ends. I've been impressed with the kit! Looking for a 0-200 or 235 mostly now, still interested in the viking though...well see!
This is where I'm at now...
Attachment 1734