This question was posed on another forum and I disagreed with the answer. Can I file and fly an IFR flight plan in VMC if my instrument rating is not current? The emphasis is on "in VMC." Thanks.
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This question was posed on another forum and I disagreed with the answer. Can I file and fly an IFR flight plan in VMC if my instrument rating is not current? The emphasis is on "in VMC." Thanks.
No. Per FAR 61.57(c):"(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person may act as pilot in command under IFR or weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR only if:". Since there's an "or" in there (Under IFR OR weather...), you can only file IFR if you're current, weather conditions not withstanding. Annnddd, I don't know why this stupid editor won't let me format this in a more readable fashion...Quote:
Originally Posted by N404CX
Just a small nit. Anyone can file (did it on every IFR training flight when I was working on my IR), but you have to be rated and current to accept the clearance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Zeitlin
Mark, my question was about VMC; your quote said less than VMC.
You can not operate under instrument flight rules unless you meet the requirements: rated, current, equipped, inspected.
There is a small dispensation for training in aircraft that isn't certified provided you do it in VMC, but that is not a total abdication lf the IFR rules. The PIC, even in VMC, must be legal: rated and current and possessing a medical certificate.
91.173 says to fly under IFR you have to file and receive a clearance. That's regardless of the weather conditions -- IMC or VMC. As the others have stated, to legally do that you have meet the 61.57 currency requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by N404CX
That's not technically true, but it is difficult to not do otherwise in practice given the lack of uncontrolled airspace in the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by Auburntsts
But even when operating in less than VMC in uncontrolled airspace without a clearance, you still are operating under IFR and must follow all the IFR rules not specifically exempted.
But the truth of the matter, "less than VMC" forces you into following the IFR rules (or the flight is illegal), but otherwise the meteorological conditions do not define instrument flight rules.
Ummm, yeah. But it ALSO said: "a person may act as pilot in command under IFR or weather conditions". And the first part of that statement, from the FAR's, clearly states that you cannot act as pilot in command under IFR unless you're current. Whatever the weather condition - IMC or VMC. There's no ambiguity. And yes - you can file - just can't accept the clearance :-). Again with the crappy formatting in this forum...Quote:
Originally Posted by N404CX
You're right. I didn't use the exact quote that included "in controlled" airspace as I thought it was implied based upon the discussion to that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingRon
So what was his answer Glen?Quote:
Originally Posted by N404CX
I'm with the consensus. One can file, one can in many cirumstances 'receive' an IFR clearance. The problem starts when said person "operates" the aircraft under the rules specific to IFR flying without complying with applicable recent experience requirements, without regard to reported weather conditions.
I suppose if one wanted to push the envelope, they could file, get an IFR clearance and make it to the runway right up to calling for takeoff clearance. Perhaps at a non-tower field, takeoff and never call for clearance once airborne doesn't quite cross the line, lol.
The regs use broad terms like 'person' which is not limited to pilot and 'operate' which is not necessarily limited to flying so there are a lot of variations one can come up with which is why these scenarios are always fun :)
Another way of flying somewhat IFR, not being current or even close, is the following: you file VFR and use the phrase "I accept vectoring". At least that works well in Europe where IFR is incredibly complicated to get (you need to be able to explain in detail the systems of an Airbus 320 as an example although you fly an RV-12 or something). EU ATC likes it when they can give you some vectoring and altitudes due to the dense traffic and their virtually non-control over VFR traffic. That includes flight following, obviously, a great safety item.
US ATC isn't supposed to vector VFR traffic outside of certain terminal airspace. In fact, except in terminal areas, vectors are uncommon even IFR. They won't typically give you vectors even if you state you are willing to accept them. If you want vectors to an instrument approach intercept or the like, ask explicitly for what you want. They'll give you the instructions with a healthy "Remain VFR" caveat.
What about aneasier IFR rating for private pilots? The european EIR (Enroute IFR Rules= T-Oin VMC, fly in or above the clouds and land in VMC). Maybe not less intrumentsin the cockpit but less study and training. Who needs an IFR ticket when 80% ofthe time the IFR flights are done in VMC.
Transport Canada and COPA are studying the case. Andre.
Been discussed. Likely not gong to happen. Obtaining the instrument rating is not hard. Maintaining proficiency in it is the hard part. Can't see watering it down.