Learning to transition into ultralights

I've had my PPL for many years, flown various airplanes, most of my training was in a 152. Now i'm interested in buying an ultralight because of the cost and lack of red tape. I am looking at either a Challenger single, or an Aerolite 103. What i would like, is to hear a detailed, step by step description of a little flight in either one of those aircraft, or maybe a similiar type. I'm just trying to figure out what the main differences are between a 152 and a UL when it comes to actually taking to the sky with one. Also, i heard that a 4 stroke will be an available option for the Aerolite in about a year.. has anyone heard anything about this? I'd rather go with a 4 stroke if at all possible, but if not, has anyone had good/bad experiences with the F33? Any information will be greatly appreciated!

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Originally Posted by jrees

I've had my PPL for many years, flown various airplanes, most of my training was in a 152. Now i'm interested in buying an ultralight because of the cost and lack of red tape. I am looking at either a Challenger single, or an Aerolite 103. What i would like, is to hear a detailed, step by step description of a little flight in either one of those aircraft, or maybe a similiar type. I'm just trying to figure out what the main differences are between a 152 and a UL when it comes to actually taking to the sky with one. Also, i heard that a 4 stroke will be an available option for the Aerolite in about a year.. has anyone heard anything about this? I'd rather go with a 4 stroke if at all possible, but if not, has anyone had good/bad experiences with the F33? Any information will be greatly appreciated!

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C'mon...let's go flying in my Legal Eagle! :D

http://www.youtube.com/user/EagleXL58?feature=mhee

I was a GA pilot for about 30 years when I flew my first ultralight-a Fisher 505. I did as much research as I could before flying and spoke with experienced U/L pilots. The major difference I noticed is the airplane didn't retain energy nearly as well as a standard category simply because it was so light. It was a little fat at 280lbs so even with me and fuel your looking at 510lbs. When you pull the power, be ready to make a pitch change. Also, it was affected by the slightest turbulence dramatically. Things seem to happen quicker as well; i.e. takeoff, pitch/roll changes induced by gusts. Other than that, she flew great. I'll never forget my first early winter, late afternoon flight in it-cool, clear and, smooth. They are lots of fun under the right conditions.

One big difference is the speed between stall and cruise is very short or slight. This is one of the hardest for most flying bigger crafts to over come at first. Some have stalled and spun these smaller crafts in because of this.

Tony

Your experience resembles mine. I had a total of about 90 hours in a variety of aircraft including C150/152. I also had about 4 hours in a Aeronca Champ. Flying my Starflight (like the Aerolite) was a lot like flying an entire flight in the Cessna with the flaps at full deflection. The time in the Champ made the stick control seem natural. For me the hardest part was the landings as I had to learn to keep quite a bit of power on and it felt like landing a go kart.... you get much closer to the ground before the flare or you will drop it in hard from stalling about 5 feet too high. When you lift the nose without power an ultralight will immediately bleed off speed. I have been flying mine for over 2 years now and finally feel fully competent landing without power but it is amazing how steep the decent can be... almost shuttle like but at 40 mph.

I fly my down wind leg at about 700-800'. Look over left and the runway will be almost below you. You are off to the side slightly. Then once the thrush hold of the runway is over my left shoulder I turn for Base, making this turn, I lower the nose as I make this turn also lower the throttle to idle. As you state you are pointing the nose down at a good angle keeping the speed at your landing speed. Need to loose speed raise the nose some, not much though for speed drops fast.

With these little airplane if you have trees or homes at the end of the runway and you have at least 2000' runway do not cross the end of the runway. Now this is in these small light aircraft that are either ultralights or really close like what I fly.

These things will not glide and you do not want to be 200' above a tree line and find yourself with an engine out. Instead as you climb out start moving off to one side of the runway and do not fly a center line down the middle. Stay within glide distance from the side, so you are holding it tight in so to speak. Then as you get ready to come to the end of the runway, lower the nose and bank back across to the other side of the runway.

Now you are on the down wind leg moving farther out to the side as you climb. As you come to the other end of the runway you come back across again and now you are flying on the otherside or where you started from after takeoff but moving out farther as you climb. Once you reach 700- or 800' you can exit the pattern and have some fun.

This is how I do it. I have a line of tree's at one end of the runway running the center line of the runway. In other words once you take off you are over tree's, then corn and beans on each side. This is the west end. The east end has homes and tree's. I avoid these area's even when landing. I do not fly over homes nor will I fly down the center line of those tree's.

Doing my takeoff's like this has saved my butt once. Today I would not have an airplane and just maybe may not be typing this if I did not fly my takeoff's like this. I had a part break on takeoff and because I just turned back across the runway and was off to the side I just slipped her back onto the runway and landed. If I would not have done this I was either in the tree's or the corn and beans. All bad choices.

Tony

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Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan

C'mon...let's go flying in my Legal Eagle! :D

http://www.youtube.com/user/EagleXL58?feature=mhee

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Nice series of videos!
I like the "Why we fly" one.
Says it all.

This is exactly the kind of info i was looking for. Please keep the flying stories coming.

Tony, you mentioned that you put your throttle to "idle" as you turn to base. I read somewhere that 2 stroke engines do not like to idle and will frequently stop running in idle position. That has been one of my concerns, which is why i am hoping for a light 4 stroke to come available soon. What kind of aircraft and engine do you fly (ultralight)? I really appreciated hearing about your departure technique, it makes a LOT of sense to me, staying close to the runway until you get to safe altitude. Everyone has great information on this site, and i would like to hear more about other's experiences with 2 stroke engines, the good and the bad of them, which engine has the longest TBO, etc.

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Originally Posted by jrees

Tony, you mentioned that you put your throttle to "idle" as you turn to base. I read somewhere that 2 stroke engines do not like to idle and will frequently stop running in idle position. That has been one of my concerns, which is why i am hoping for a light 4 stroke to come available soon. What kind of aircraft and engine do you fly (ultralight)? I really appreciated hearing about your departure technique, it makes a LOT of sense to me, staying close to the runway until you get to safe altitude. Everyone has great information on this site, and i would like to hear more about other's experiences with 2 stroke engines, the good and the bad of them, which engine has the longest TBO, etc.

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I fly behind a VW engine. Using a two stroke you should never let her idle and windmill the prop. My airplane is what I call a step above an ultralight but flies like an ultralight. Meaning the speeds are real close to that of an MXL Quicksilver just maybe a step above it or just a few MPH faster in all aspects of the speed envelope. I do not fly under the 103 rule. My airplane has an N number.

Some fly behind a two stroke and never have one problem. Then there are some like myself whom just have bad luck behind one. When I first started flying I thought a two stroke would work if you knew how to take care of them. But the problem runs deeper so to speak. What I found is that these are not certified aviation for a reason and if you fly them as such they are not to bad.

Example of what I am talking about: I will condense this to keep it short, others I am sure have read this before for I have posted this other places.

Stator went out of my little 447 rotax. I called and ordered one of these for a good heft price and waiting for my package to arrive. I put my new stator on and one hr worth of ground running with my airplane tied down. I would run her for a little shut down, start up run a little shut down. I did this for an hr. I then untie her and taxi her for about 45 mins. I am known as Taxi Man here by the rc club for the say all I did was taxi.
After this taxi session I take her to the end of the runway and am ready to take flight. I throttle into her and she is running better then ever, I just get ready to leave or break free from gravity when all went quiet.
You can not buy a new single ignition stators for all New parts are for dual Ignition. I climb out of my airplane and unplug the coil from the stator and plug the coil into the other side of the stator. I gave her a pull on the cord and she started right up.
I taxied her to the hangar and gave up on two strokes that day. I will not fly behind one. I have many more stories like this 7 in all. All before I had logged 75 hrs as a pilot.

Tony

That turn to base to final is like a ballet dance and done all in one move. I slip it kinda into the final position as I am descending from this 700 - 800'. You are so close to final anyway because you are holding it in so tight.
I read this in a book, the author said this is a lot more fun then the long straight final. I have to agree and if I have have an engine out I am on the runway, I keep the runway within glide distance anytime I am around it.

I call it flying Smart. Others say fly safe. I say fly smart, safety follows. But this is just me.

Tony

Tony, thanks again for the info. I am hoping a 4 stroke will soon be available for UL flight, staying within 103 regs. I have read some good reviews on the Hirth F-33 (28hp) 2 stroke, but then i've read some bad reviews as well. At present, there are three engine options if you purchase a new Aerolite 103, however all are 2 stroke, with the Hirth having the highest TBO time. If you, or anyone else has experience or knowledge of the Hirth F33, i would like to hear about it, good or bad. I live in a rural area (northern Ky. area), a ten minute drive from my house to the airport (K-62 / Falmouth/Gene Snyder Airport), so it will be quite handy when i do buy a little bird. At present, i'm just trying to learn as much as i can about them, and i do appreciate the replies on this site. It sounds like you (Tony) and i think a lot alike, putting safety number one. I've seen too many pilots jump in their planes and take off without even doing a pre-flight or checking their fuel first. I just can't believe it when i see it happen, but it does happen.

You need a Legal Eagle. They use a 1/2 vw. The airplane comes in under 254 lbs and they fly great.

The Legal Eagle looks pretty neat but i am used to tri gear, i have no time in a tail dragger.

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Originally Posted by jrees

Tony, thanks again for the info. I am hoping a 4 stroke will soon be available for UL flight, staying within 103 regs.

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If you are looking at factory-built 4-stroke 103 compliant airplane, you have 2 choices today: BYF and Belite.

BYF uses a smaller engine (they claim up to 40 hp, but you probably want to have a detuned version for longevity), is about the cheapest 103 you can buy new (about $20k). BYF meets the 103 weight by using un-aircraft-like construction techniques, and that made it rather controversial among the hardcore. Personally, I would fly it in a heartbeat.
http://culverprops.com/BackYardFlyerUL.html

Belite only just now started shipping 1/2 WV craft. Since their engine is much heavier than BYF's, they had to use carbon fiber extensively, and they barely stay legal. You have to pay something like $40 or $50k for a toy like that, so it's really only for rich and very sick retirees who cannot even self-sertify for LSA, but do not want to settle for a glider. Excellent plane if you forget the price though.
http://www.beliteaircraft.com/ultral...s/UltraCub.php

There used to be a Gull with HKS 700E from the factory, but those folks are always on and off experimenting (their current hobby is electric power). A Gull was also expensive like 4-stroke Belite.

Since even BYF was too expensive for me, I found an ultralight-like N-numbered experimental with HKS 700E. So far it was a pleasurable experience, although I pranged it on the 2nd flight. It was purely because of inept piloting on my part and I do not think any less of ultralights and very light LSAs because of that. HKS unit has good reputation, but unfortunately it's more expensive than 1/2 WV. My overhaul reserve is about $18/hr (my 700E is actually TBO-extended to 800 hours by s#, which would make $11/hr, but I am not sure it's going to last), while 1/2 WV Hummel would set you back to $9/hr, even if you buy new. This is comparable to an overhaul reserve on O-200, I think.

I really think that an N-numbered Kolb Firefly with a 4-stroke power would be ideal. I saw ads for such with 1/2 WV, Valley's Twin (the BYF engine), and of course with HKS 700E. Do not shy from experimentals. You're a member of EAA, aren't you?

P.S. From what I know about Legal Eagle, it's fully awesome too, but I'm less familiar with it, sadly. Also, they are very rare (much fewer were completed than Fireflies), and the asking prices are often rather wild. You need to know the type well before buying.

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Originally Posted by zaitcev

<snip>
Belite only just now started shipping 1/2 WV craft. Since their engine is much heavier than BYF's, they had to use carbon fiber extensively, and they barely stay legal.
<snip>
From what I know about Legal Eagle, it's fully awesome too, but I'm less familiar with it, sadly. Also, they are very rare (much fewer were completed than Fireflies), and the asking prices are often rather wild. You need to know the type well before buying.

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Some clarification/corrections:

The Big Valley (BYF), Generac-based engine package is considerably heavier than the 1/2 VW, 120lbs vs 87lbs. The Big Valley requires a gearbox and electric start which is not needed on the 1/2 VW.

The Legal Eagle has been built in considerable numbers (estimated 100+ flying) but is not available ready-to-fly unless you purchase from a builder. The few I have seen for sale usually are priced way below cost of materials, but some have damage history.

For the builder, the Legal Eagle is an excellent choice and results in a UL that flies, and sounds, like an airplane for less than $10K.

My Legal Eagle web site

Mine was brand new had 1 hr on it. 4500 bucks.

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Originally Posted by jrees

Tony, thanks again for the info. I am hoping a 4 stroke will soon be available for UL flight, staying within 103 regs. I have read some good reviews on the Hirth F-33 (28hp) 2 stroke, but then i've read some bad reviews as well. At present, there are three engine options if you purchase a new Aerolite 103, however all are 2 stroke, with the Hirth having the highest TBO time. If you, or anyone else has experience or knowledge of the Hirth F33, i would like to hear about it, good or bad. I live in a rural area (northern Ky. area), a ten minute drive from my house to the airport (K-62 / Falmouth/Gene Snyder Airport), so it will be quite handy when i do buy a little bird. At present, i'm just trying to learn as much as i can about them, and i do appreciate the replies on this site. It sounds like you (Tony) and i think a lot alike, putting safety number one. I've seen too many pilots jump in their planes and take off without even doing a pre-flight or checking their fuel first. I just can't believe it when i see it happen, but it does happen.

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My two cents.... I currently have 160 hours on a Rotax 377 on it's third overhaul (essentially the 447 with smaller displacement). The prior owner had problems with landing at idle (which results in the engine really cooling down too much during the landing) and then going immediately to full power and taking back off again. Essentially he caused the engine to seize because the pistons were still hot and the cylinders had cooled to the point where a piston scuffed. After a full overhaul I have been very happy. A well maintained Rotax is a great motor... but you do have to think before you act. IF I were building or buying a new plane I probably would look at a 1/2VW as they are a bit more forgiving. If I were looking at something used I wouldn't write off anything with a Rotax. As I said just my two cents.

A guy at my airport finished a (il)Legal Eagle recently and it's very impressive. If I were in the mood to build an ultralight, I'd go with the Legal Eagle. The airplane, with the 1/2 VW, is outstanding in all aspects as far as I can see. I might even consider hunting one down to play with after I sell my KitFox!

I did check out the Backyard Flyer, and like the product, but the price is a little high. But.. considering the wings can move around "straight" for storage inside of an enclosed trailer, that would save hanger fees. The Aerolite 103 is $16,000 complete, ready to fly, and the BYF $20,000. I wish the BYF was the same price as the Aerolite. PLUS, the BYF has the 40hp 4 stroke, which i really prefer. I haven't checked out the Belite yet, that's next. Quite a bit to think about, but the BYF sure has my attention. Thanks once again for the info, i really appreciate the help you guys offer here.

Just another research update.. I spoke ( email ) with Dennis of Aerolite 103, he said that they are going to start flight testing a 4 stroke on the Aerolite 103 in the spring. I belive he said it's going to be a "Vangard" engine? Not sure if i'm spelling it right. Is anyone familiar with these engines? I also looked at the Belite, and the true legal UL only has a Hirth F33 available. Belite also has folding wings, according to their site, but not sure how hard it would be to fold and unfold. It looks like the BYF just takes a couple minutes to rotate the wing. I emailed BYF a couple of times, trying to get information, but can NOT get anyone to respond. I'm still checking a few out, but so far, the BYF is my favorite UL.. and of course, it has to be the most expensive!

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Originally Posted by jrees

The Aerolite 103 is $16,000 complete, ready to fly, and the BYF $20,000.

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It's because the BYF always comes with a chute. If so equipped, Aerolite is also a $20k ariplane. Surprisingly you can stuff a Belite into $21k by selecting a taildragger with F33 and no instruments or any options such as disc brakes.

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Originally Posted by jrees

Just another research update.. I spoke ( email ) with Dennis of Aerolite 103, he said that they are going to start flight testing a 4 stroke on the Aerolite 103 in the spring. I belive he said it's going to be a "Vangard" engine? Not sure if i'm spelling it right. Is anyone familiar with these engines?

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"Vanguard" is a line of commercial power engines from Briggs & Stratton. Yes, the lawnmower engine people.

I am a Factory trained Briggs & Stratton Technician. Its been 21 years since I went through this training. I was really impressed with this company. When I signed up for this I thought, right what can I learn here. I was totally wrong in my way of thinking.
Honda engines from Japan retooled back in the early 90's. They did this because their patents where all going to the open market. So they retooled and redid the Honda engine. In doing this they had warehouses full of new block cores and other parts. Guess whom purchased all this NOS " New Old Stock" you got it, briggs & stratton. This is why if you looked on a briggs engine you saw...Made in Japan. For these engines are Honda engines just assembled by Briggs.
Now I have not been in this for years so I am not sure if they depleted this stock but I would say they still are selling these engines. They had hundred of thousands of these engines. The Vangaurd is an industrial engine with iron cylinders. Some of the cheaper briggs engine have aluminum cylinders.

Tony

Thanks for the info guys! I've been using Briggs & Statton lawnmower engines to cut grass for almost 50 years now, never had a single problem with one of those engines. Looks to me it would be a great, dependable engine for a UL. So far, the BYF seems to be the package i'm looking for, folding wings, 4 stroke with built in carb heat, chute,
25mph take off & land, and they look like they're built really rugged from what i see in various videos. I also like Aerolite, especially if they start putting the 4 stroke in it, but it doesn't have folding wings which may end up being necessary in my case. I also like the Belite, but the legal 103 only comes with 2 stroke (Hirth F33), plus their digital guages look kind of confusing to me, at least what i could tell from one of their videos. Still can't understand why BYF will not return my emails.

For cost and ease of flying I would go...Legal Eagle. 4 stroke vw and the vw is a proven design. If you go Hummel you can insure the engine if you can find a company to do it. All Hummel engines are insurable. I sent Scott my 1/2 vw and he is upgrading the crank, rods, pistons and jugs to the 44 hp all assembled for 1100 bucks. You can not beat that.

Legal Eagle with a vw would be my first choice. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket get a Belite.

Tony

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Originally Posted by jrees

I also like the Belite, but the legal 103 only comes with 2 stroke (Hirth F33) ...

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Is this what Jim himself told you? It clearly contradicts to what I read on his blog, where he writes that his Hummel 1/2 WV bird is 103 legal (admittedly with the chute).

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Originally Posted by zaitcev

Is this what Jim himself told you? It clearly contradicts to what I read on his blog, where he writes that his Hummel 1/2 WV bird is 103 legal (admittedly with the chute).

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Be careful with the chute allowance, many have mis-used this allowance.

Part 103 allows a chute to be added to a Part 103 compliant aircraft. The chute can weigh up to 24 lbs, but the plane without chute must still be less than 254 lbs. Many (even manufacturers) have tacked on 24 lbs to the 254 as a "freebie" if some sort of chute is included. But the only change that can be made to aircraft weight is 254 plus the actual weight of the chute.

No, i absolutely do not have money burning a hole in my pocket, but wish i did! Does the Legal eagle come RTF? Is that an option? What is the price if so? Can you get it in tricycle form? Do the wings fold? What are the lift off, cruise, and landing speed? I am interested in learning more about the Legal Eagle Tony, help me out here! I could have mistaken the 4 stroke Belite not being a legal UL, but i do recall that it jumped the price from around 18 grand with the Hirth F33, to around 32 grand with 4 stroke. 20 is my max, and i would really even hate to pay that for any UL. Please tell me more about the Legal Eagle!

They fly like an ultralight as far as speeds go. The wings do not fold, although the Legal Eagle I owned the Builder designed folding wings into it. I purchased mine RTF for 4500 bucks. You can find them for around this price maybe a little more, you just have to watch for them.

Call Leonard and speak with him. He will answer the phone, how many other companies can you talk with the owner just by calling. He might know someone whom will build you one for a decent price.

http://www.betterhalfvw.com/

Tony

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Originally Posted by jrees

Please tell me more about the Legal Eagle!

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My Legal Eagle XL build/fly site:

http://eaglexl-58.com

The webinar I presented for the EAA on the Legal Eagle XL:

http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=2634527737001

My XL Youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/EagleXL58?feature=mhee

That should get your research off to a good start. :)

Sam I will have to check out this webinar. I like your XL.

Sam do you know anyone whom would make the fuselage for those whom do not or can not do this work? I would like to have another one of these. Chris BoBo built mine. I lost all his contact info or I would call him and ask him to build me another. He made the wings fold back for transport and put the fuel tank in the center. He is or was an aeronautical engineer for Boeing.

I loved that little airplane and regret selling it.

Tony

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Originally Posted by 1600vw

Sam I will have to check out this webinar. I like your XL.

Sam do you know anyone whom would make the fuselage for those whom do not or can not do this work? I would like to have another one of these. Chris BoBo built mine. I lost all his contact info or I would call him and ask him to build me another. He made the wings fold back for transport and put the fuel tank in the center. He is or was an aeronautical engineer for Boeing.

I loved that little airplane and regret selling it.

Tony

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John Bolding sells material kits and welded fuselages. His contact info is at the bottom of this page:

http://www.betterhalfvw.com

Thanks again guys, i'll be checking out the new info.

In your opening statement you say you're interested in less red tape, therefore UL's. A Challenger single weighs close to 400 lbs, so needs an N number & you need a Sport License. Aerolite 103 is a legal UL. To keep it legal you wouldn't be able to put an HKS 4-stroke on it I believe-- too heavy.

2-strokes definately have issues. One of them is they are LOUD. I'm pretty good at wrenching so I felt OK with flying a Rotax 503 on a Challenger single. And over the course of 250 hrs of flying the engine was mostly fine. The NOT fine? 2-strokes depend on crankcase pressurization from the piston downstroke to move fuel/air mix that is POST CARB (inside the block) to the combustion chamber. Not just the sucking of piston like a 4stroke. All it takes is a piston with a slightly deformed ring gap to bind the ring enough to make a poor seal against the cylinder wall. That sucker shut off over a pasture. Engine had never been run hot, engine tested & ran fine the next day and for 2 weeks of testing, then happened again. Rotax shop found the problem & engine had no issues for the next 150 hours, when I sold it.

As a previous reply said, these lightweight machines get thrown around by gusts & thermals pretty easily, and glide ratio is about 5:1. So you have to judiciously choose your flying conditions & flight path.

Flygreen, have you had any experience with Hirth engines? The Belite comes with a F-33, but just wondering if it's any better than a Rotax, or about the same. Also, as i posted, an Aerolite rep. i talked to said they are going to start test flying a 4 stroke on their UL this spring, a Vanguard i believe. Might be worth the wait, huh? There are a few UL's out there that i like the design, but i'm not a builder, really want a trike 4 stroke legal ul. Wish there were more choices.

jrees~~ My only experience is with Rotax air-cooled and VW conversion engines. I know the HKS 4-stroke engines enjoy a solid reputation, but the weight will put the airplane over the UL limit or 254 lbs. There is a company who makes 2-cylinder VW-type engines (1/2 VW), so they are 4-stroke. Don't know the power rating but possibly enough for a very light 3-axis airframe, but not enough for a trike. Trikes have more drag and need more power.
Good to know some company is still pursuing a light 4-stroke--- would be great for the UL community. Yes, might be worth the wait.

Flygreen, yes, might be worth the wait. I would not be so concerned about an engine if it were not for the hilly area that surrounds the airport that i will be flying from. No flat lands in this area, just hills which Ky. is known for. Not many (if any) good options should it stop spinning. So far, the BYF sounds like my best choice, just wish the waiting list wasn't so long.. over a year!