Looking to obtain my Sport Pilot in the Indianapolis area. Seems hard to find an instructor here, anybody out there?
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Looking to obtain my Sport Pilot in the Indianapolis area. Seems hard to find an instructor here, anybody out there?
I'm out here, unfortunately, that would be Arkansas. Finished my Sport Pilot Instructor recently and would love to see someone wanting to learn to fly..
The lack of posting on this has a lot to say. Good luck on your quest for a SP certificate. Two weeks ago I had a conversation with a CFI over the SP certificate. He said no way he would ever give instructions for this certificate. He said he has a career to think about. I have no idea what that meant. What it gave me was some insight into what a CFI thinks about those going after the SP certificate.
Tony
I would suggest contacting a Sport Pilot examiner from the list here: http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certific...n/sport_pilot/ and ask if they can provide the name/contact info for any sport pilot instructors.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsherwin
I encountered no outright road blocks, but a lot of subtle ones. Most of those came from the CFI's and Flight School (not surprising since they stand to lose somewhere between 35 and 50 percent of their revenue). Surprisingly I can give 2 thumbs up to how the FAA has been during the process. The FAA along with my DPE seemed almost giddy to have someone pursue the rating. Also there is a ton of misconceptions, like that doing away with the 3rd class medical would mean the end of the Sport Pilot program.
I don't see sport pilot as a short cut to get out of studying, or doing work. Nor am I looking for the opportunity to help people that are severely deficient medically get in the air. There are certain things that should preclude you being allowed to pilot a plane with someone, who may or may not be privy to your medical shortcomings, on board. But I do see a benefit to studying what matters, we always hear 'fly the plane'. Well, here is a chance to concentrate on doing just that, learning HOW to FLY. What's wrong with doing that as a Sport Pilot for a couple of years, then when you are ready, adding more airplanes (or more seats) you can fly?
I know people aren't necessarily like me, but when I look back on 700 hours of flying mostly 4 seat airplanes, better than 96 percent of my flying has been 1 or 2 people in the DAYTIME, in short, I could have done almost all the flying I've done on a Sport License.
Gee Tony, one CFI's opinion is not representative of ALL FAA certificated CFI's. Perhaps this particular CFI has no understanding of Sport Pilot nor any interest in providing SP instruction. He is free to do that you know.....Quote:
Originally Posted by 1600vw
The DPE that I tested with was on this list and that is how I found him. However, the majority of the list is out of date. ie, people that have quit, at least it was around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by martymayes
That is exactly what is going on, most CFI's that I have met, are ready to offer their opinion on something they have no direct (or indirect) knowledge of, and it's only if you choose to keep drilling, do you finally get them to admit that they don't know and have never really considered it.Quote:
Originally Posted by martymayes
Check with Indy Metro(Tom Wood aviation)...they fly skycatchers. Also, Indy Executive (Eagle flyers) also skycatchers. Greenwood is where I got mine in an Evektor Sportstar...sorry, it has left the city!
I know how the OP feels. I live on Long Island and you would think with all the flight schools there would be many choices for sport pilot. Unfortunately there was only one school and their LSA fleet has dwindled to a single Skycatcher. I was politely told I was too fat to fly in it so the prospect was lose 25-30 lbs or find an alternative. The only other school could find was in CT, an hour drive and 1 hour ferry ride but they had a Remos. I finally just broke down and bought my own plane, an E-LSA Zodiac CH601 that can carry my (now 250#) carcass, an instructor and gas. Based on what I have seen the sport pilot certificate just doesn't seem to have taken off the way it was predicted. I'd be willing to guess there are as many or more private pilots flying LSAs for one reason or another than new sport pilot only pilots.
You know you are correct. This is the only man in the country who feels this way. Every flight school in America offers this SP training and not one person in America is having any problems getting a SP certificate or the training needed to get this certificate. CFI's are falling over each other racing to each new student to offer this training.Quote:
Originally Posted by martymayes
I don't believe I said I was quoting every or ALL CFI in America. I stated what one CFI said. It's you who wants to make this about every CFI in the country. But this does show that we have those who feel a certain way about certain aviation Certificates. The guys flying the Heavy's look down on those who fly GA. Those flying GA look down on those who fly SP. It keeps going. If you don't believe this just look at what happened with the Airline pilots and the 3rd class medical. That letter that the airline pilots association sent off shows this lack of camaraderie between the different classes of aviation Certificates. Its a they are better then us type of thinking. IMHO.
People who think like this are called...Snobs.
snob
snäb/
noun
noun: snob; plural noun: snobs
- a person with an exaggerated respect for high social position or wealth who seeks to associate with social superiors and dislikes people or activities regarded as lower-class.
- a person who believes that their tastes in a particular area are superior to those of other people.
"a musical snob"
Tony
It's encouraging to hear from a few people here that have pursued some form of sport pilot training. I hope more chime in. But I can make some recommendations that might help out as you begin your training.
a) get knowledgeable about the certificate you are after. Especially if it is light sport. Read over 61.301 thru 61.327 and the Sport Pilot PTS (available for free at faa.gov). If you don't know what your training should contain and your CFI isn't particularly up on it, at the worst you will see them pushing you toward the PPL, and at the best, they will be running up your bill and wasting your time by training you up on stuff that's in the PPL PTS instead of the Sport Pilot PTS.
b) don't be afraid to fly with different instructors. If your CFI realizes that's he is the only fish in your pond, you've handed him a blank check. A lot of the young CFIs are more concerned about how their record looks than if you are ready to take the check ride. I have experienced this in every rating that I trained for. It really burns me up, but I've had at least one CFI in each rating (2 in the sport CFI training) that was afraid that I would bust and make them look bad. Keep it about your training by flying with some other guys, because in the end, it's really about economy. They need the money and the time in their books, they just think that they need the 100% pass record from their students.
I am really close to retiring my first log book and starting my second one. So this thread has prompted me to go back and count up how many different instructors that I've flown with through the years. I guess I'm a numbers guy, but I found it pretty astounding. I've flow with 18 different instructors (I had a little training in the 80's, but seriously got after it in 1998). 5 different instructors preparing for my PPL. One guy that moved away just before I was ready to solo, one that was desperately afraid of either me or my plane, one that was super worried that I would tarnish his record, but was otherwise a great instructor, and one that desperately needed a student that stood a chance of passing the check ride. Care to guess which one signed me off? 5 different instructors preparing for the commercial checkride. One that I was looking forward to working more with, but he departed early, 3 guys that were worried about their bust ratio, 2 of them were infuriating little children who were so confounded by the fact that I already knew how to fly and it wasn't like all their other students from the 'local' school that they kept wasting my time trying to change all my basics, and one guy that I'm now great friends with who told me I was ready and to get on along to the check ride. Then 7 different instructors while working on my Sport CFI, 2 guys that provided insurance check outs and no training, a great fellow that helped me with spin training and tail wheel flying, another friend and CFI who finished up my tail wheel endorsement along with providing 7 of my BFRs through the years, 2 guys who didn't think I could pass and tried to get me to spend money on 10 more hours of ground training to pad their pockets because 'hey their last CFI candidate put in 35 hours of ground training, you can give us 10..', and my friend whom I have a lot of respect for and mentioned earlier who flew with me once and looked at some of my ground work and lesson plans and said 'those guys are nuts, I'll sign you off right now'.
So keep your eyes out for those guys who want to hang out in your pocket book, but also look until you find the guys that are making pilots. They are the ones that you really want on your side.
Yup, great observations Chuck. Obviously, a flight school can't put a $150k+ LSA trainer on the flight line (much less 2 or 3) and look at it. If nobody shows up to fly, I would NOT expect it to stay around for long. What's the reason the plane(s) didn't fly? I would think a flight school trying to promote LSA would not have instructors on staff refusing to give sport pilot training, those worried about their careers. I can believe that people didn't flood in to take sport pilot flight training only because no medical is required, despite industry/alphabet group predictions otherwise. The hourly cost for sport pilot training is still quite steep. And there are plenty of other competing recreational activities. Getting more people involved in flying is going to take more than a simplified pilot certification but some have said that all along. :-|Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckiec
BTW, congrats on your plane purchase and good luck with your training! I'm glad you kept pursuing despite the obstacles!
This is a timely thread for me. I just got back from being at AirVenture and 'once again' I'm pumped up on getting a Sport Pilot cert. I feel I'm interested in Sport Pilot for the right reasons. The type of flying I most want to do (low and slow around the patch type stuff) and the type of aircraft I'm interested in building and flying (Hummel H5 LSA).
However, though there was plenty of encouragement from EAA at AirVenture regarding Sport Pilot there seems to be little encouragement out in the 'real world'. Even after years of implementation Sport Pilot still seems to be a rather obscure rating. At several Forums I attended at Osh there were folks that expressed how difficult it 'still is' to get SP instruction. Perhaps one of the more disturbing sentiments expressed that I personally heard was that some felt a Sport Pilot rating is being looked down upon as 'inferior' (in comparison to a Private Pilots License) and a 'waste of time' (why bother, just get a PPL, so to speak). That sentiment kinda bum's me out. It reminds me of the whole 'mine is bigger than yours' crap. You know, for instance, in the medical field it was not uncommon to see Doctors 'naturally' look down on Nurses, nurses look down on Paramedics, Paramedics look down on EMT's, EMT's look down on First Aid cert owners etc. Unfortunately all for no other reason than to stick out a chest and raise a nose to those 'beneath you' rather than sharing a common thread of medicine and caring for others. Is that the case in GA when it comes to Sport Pilot? Geez, I really hope not. I'd rather that someone looking to obtain a Sport Pilots License be looked apon as a fellow aviation enthusiast and an opportunity to grow the aviation community.
I love aviation, always have. 25 years ago I had the time and money to pursue a PPL. Unfortunately, as is often the case, I ran out of both not long after soloing. But I loved it and, as with many of you I'm sure, I will never forget that day my instructor said, your ready, she's yours, now take her up! :)
Anyhow, I'm back home (near San Diego), recently retired from the Fire Department and once again with the time and money to pursue my dream, but I'm half expecting to be a bit discouraged as I look into it more.
Doesn't matter if it's 1 or 100. Or even 1000. There's plenty of other instructors out there. I can assure you the majority of sport pilot authorized instructors are not bashing LSA. That would be like a car salesman selling only luxury cars and turning up his nose at anything else. For sure, there are some people like that but if compact/economy cars are selling, there are plenty of other salesmen more than willing to sell them (The real problem here is we have this new category of plane and pilot but no steady stream of customers coming in the door).Quote:
Originally Posted by 1600vw
I fly an airliner and I don't look down on anyone. I try to do my part to promote recreational/light sport/GA flying. One of my pet peeves is those that over generalize about the LSA industry and sport pilot certificates in a negative way. Yup, some people don't like it. Big deal. Call them a snob or whatever, if they are not on board we don't need them. They are not going to make or break the industry.
Good deal Mike. I would like to build an H5 as well. Don't give up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike A
To the OP, I think a Google search can turn up Flight Schools with LSA aircraft that will train for a SP certificate. Indy Sky Sports is one I found, and Indianapolis Flying Lessons is another (no affiliation to either).
In terms of the SP certificate, it has been interesting getting feedback from the various flight schools in the LA/Orange County area about it. Most I spoke with really down-played the SP Certificate and the aircraft itself. One went so far as to call the SP Certificate "unsafe" and the light sport aircraft he had at his school "slow and incapable." I'm currently training for my SP certificate, and I couldn't disagree more with the sentiment I've experienced.
Each pilot has to make his/her own decision as to what fulfills the mission. I chose Sport Pilot because it meets my mission, and the aircraft are economical to rent/operate. Will I pursue a Private Pilot certificate? Yes... in time and after I have practice and comfort using the SP privileges. But I fail to understand why many of the PP look unfavorably upon a SP.
I, too, am working towards a SPL. I've already gotten the evil eye from a PP or two.
That's very discouraging to hear.Quote:
Originally Posted by VFR-on-top
Try not to get discouraged, keep after it. You'd think that all the ups and downs in aviation were in altitude, but apparently not. I've related some of the attitudes I have come across in my training, not just my sport training, but all of it. Friday was definitely one of those days that reminded me that I really like this aviating thing. I got a call Friday afternoon, a fellow out of flying for a few years needing a Flight Review and Insurance check out for a club SkyCatcher. He was given my name; he paid for the flying, and paid me for the review too. In 17 years, that's never happened to me...
Its tough to " Keep after it " when "it" is not even located in your back yard. For those of us who have to travel a few hrs one way for this training, well, it sucks to be us. But if ask those who have this training in thier backyard so to speak, they believe everyone has this available to them in thier back yard. This just is not the case. They will say. I did it why can't you. Because its not available in our back yard. Not everyone can travel a few hrs for one hr training. So what do they do, they go fishing or do some other activity. Now I am done, for it's time to go fishing.
You might ask why do I go fishing. The pond is in my back yard. In other words, if I had to drive to fish, I would not fish......
Tony
I can relate to that! I am planning on getting gyroplane training/rating and it looks like I'll have to travel not only out of state but halfway across the country!!!
Hello, all Robert here. I drive 1.5 hours one way to get in my 1 hour of flight training for my Sport Pilot goal. it does suck, but my training is in the closest style of airplane I built for myself, I started it as an ultralight, but soon realized it was not going to make weight. since my time with this instructor counted toward my SPL I have moved from learning to fly just as an Ultralite to the Light Sport category.
we are using the Quick Silver side by side, at and I also have a choice of a Challenger, the quick silver is slower and more draggy, but its close to my built plane.
it took me over a year to find this instructor here in ohio, most of the other sources for Sport Pilot were in the 100,000 dollar style light sport aircraft, that are 2.5 time my planes weight, it was not close enough for me to feel comfortable, in a commercial built plane.
its a work in progress, and I have to do what is necessary to get to the goal of SPL.
all I can say is keep after that dream, the hard work and training / testing is worth it.
Robert , Somerset Ohio.
I used to live in Clark Lake. If you have the equipment, I can train you; but not in winter.Quote:
Originally Posted by martymayes
Don't lock into Sport Pilot at the start. Start training in what is a available. You do not need the student pilot license or medical until you solo. All training is good and will help.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsherwin
When getting close to solo find an instructor qualified to teach in your plane.
Do do train at a field suitable for your type of flying. Do not train at a busy Class D airport if you want to fly a Quicksilver. You will waste hundreds of dollars on radio procedures that you will seldom use.
If one uses the correct rated Sport Pilot CFI, you are not " Locked " into anything. Another Myth about the SP certificate. That would be: Some believe that once you start or take SP you are " Locked " into this certificate and the time and training mean nothing. This is just wrong, IF one uses the correct rated SP CFI.Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi
Tony
Jedi Just me but I believe the type of training and how to do that you describe is wrong. One needs to find a CFI that understands what they want in a Certificate. This new student needs to build a rapport with his/her CFI. Jumping from one to another does nothing but spread your hard earned money around and waste time.
Also don't just jump in any airplane for training. If you plan on flying a quicksilver do not train in a 172 or 210. Not good advice...IMHO
Tony
The advice that tells you to not give up is the best advice. There are people out and around most everyone who will help another aviator. Its only by being persistent that you will meet these people. They are hard to find because in this day and age aviation on the scale we speak is a loaner activity. Most of us are alone or in very small groups. Its only by getting out and meeting people will you run into this special person who will help you.
It took me a few years but I found this person. Stick with it and you will find yours. He/she is out there you just have not met them yet. You will..
Tony
There is a lot of truth to what you say but I would spend a few hours in a local C-152 before driving 3 hours for an official LSA such as a Remos or CT that is only slightly different. All use the same technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1600vw
Would you refuse to learn to drive a Ford if what you really wanted was a MG?
Take what is available and build on that. Transition to a Qulicksilver will be a learning process regardless of what you are trained in even if it is two pilot Quick to a solo Quick.
The 150 training will help round out the overall pilot experience. As indicated, it does need to be done in the right environment and with the right CFI. Not the one that thinks Sport Pilots are stupid.
Any my middle ground here?
There's a lot of prejudice out there against sport pilots, and I think that it will get better over time. I volunteered to teach a 2 hour ground school class this weekend, because everyone else (CFIs) were out of town. The class was going to be over ADM and cross country flight planning, a blast email was sent out to everyone. All the private students skipped it. (now, we are talking saturday morning, and I'm new, so i don't know how many would have been there normally..) However, the 6000 hour plus ATP pilot (that's been retired from flying really big iron for 10 or so years) who is getting back into flying at the private pilot level said that he thought it was about the most beneficial class he's seen, and he really seemed to enjoy it. So it may take a while, but I think that once they start seeing good quality pilots out there and that they are operating at the sport pilot level, they will come around. I do think that you've got to be willing to take a few rides in a 150 or 152 to find those guys that will respect what you are looking to do and will help you when you find something that qualifies as light sport. And all the learning counts toward your training. What sport CFI's are supposed to cover (say pre solo) isn't any different than for a private pilot. It would be frustrating if all the students that I might ever have learned to fly with me and then got a signoff with someone else and tested as private pilot... But I'd still get to do some instructing.
how are you doing with your flying.. if you need to location any schools checkout http://LightSportMan.com