Flying a Chief

Hello-
Looking into the possibility of purchasing an Aeronca Chief 11AC. I've heard many good things about them, but one owner was telling me how unreliable the 65HP Continential is. He said that it could ice up at any moment (he would periodically pull carb heat in cruise) and it was also not a good idea to land with no power (I usually cut power on downwind abeam the numbers and glide in). He said that this could cause the engine to quit, and not enough altitude and speed in the pattern to allow for a restart.
Is there any merit to these comments, or was he a little paranoid?
Thanks for any insight...
Michael

Small Continentals are notorious for carb ice. Not so much at cruise, though.

If the engine quits on final, something is wrong. However, you do need to advance the throttle slowly from idle, or it may stumble or quit.

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Originally Posted by mjr

Looking into the possibility of purchasing an Aeronca Chief 11AC. I've heard many good things about them, but one owner was telling me how unreliable the 65HP Continential is. He said that it could ice up at any moment

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Is this one of those "my wife is making me sell the plane so I'll discourage potential buyers" stories?

Small continentals can ice up but that doesn't mean they are unreliable. You'll just have to learn the various operating idiosycracies of the aircraft while slipping the surly bonds.

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Originally Posted by martymayes

Is this one of those "my wife is making me sell the plane so I'll discourage potential buyers"

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Ha! Couldn't say for sure, but I've experienced that ice issue during cruise in a C150 once during the winter.I've been looking at Cardinals for the longest time, but I'm starting to become more attracted to the older taildraggers and I like the fact that the Chief doesn't have tandem seating.

The A-65 with the Stromberg carb had some problems with the engine quiting on final. Once I put a Marvel carb on and tossed the Strombrg, it never happened again. A little less drastic is to send your Stromberg in to Don Swords and have him overhaul it.If the carb is a Stromberg and it is many years old, it should be overhauled anyway. There were several different carb fuel float parts which were blessed and then unblessed. The pointed part which shut off the fuel when the bowl was full went from something I don't remember, to stainless steel, to delrin. Give Don a call and let him make you smart before you spend any money.Google Don's Dream Machines...Sorry about the formatting. This site is not IPAD friendly.Pete

One other thing you might consider - a wood propeller on a 65HP Chief doesn't have the mass of a metal propeller. If the carb does ice up and the engine quits, and you are in the pattern flying slow, the propeller may not windmill making restart impossible. As stated above, liberal use of carburetor heat at or below 2000 RPM usually takes care of carb ice. Good luck.
-Joel Marketello

mjr,

I don't want to sway you against the sage counsel of all of the nightmares you have been warned, but as an owner of a beautiful Chief for about two months now, I can advise you to not lie awake nights with horror stories beating on your common sense. Carb Ice is a very real thing but is not an exclusive property of the A-65 Continental and engine failures on final are also not the kind of bug-a-boo you should sweat in your aircraft selection. I don't know what kind of aircraft you have flown before but certainly finding one close to you and working out a ride with a competent pilot or ,better yet a tailwheel instructor, will give you a much better idea of what you are considering than any other approach. This type of aircraft has been successfully flown for more than a 1/2 century and they haven't all crashed and burned! My proof of this is that there are still some nice looking ones on Barnstormers and Trade-a-Plane or even the NAA site. Check out your flying mission and see if it matches up with a Chief. If so, take that trial ride. Soon enough, you may become one of those folks looking for more and more detailed info on its' parts and pieces.
Good Luck.

OK, lets take a close look at some of these comments about small Continentals and Aeroncas.

I don't think the small Continentals are unreliable by any means. They are as reliable or unreliable as the quality of parts and regular maintenance they receive, meaning, if they get good maintenance they should be a very reliable engine. Of course you have to remember that these engines and airframes are around 60 some years old too.

About carb ice, given the right conditions, like cool damp days, the little Continentals love to make ice. Is that a problem, not if your aware of it and deal with it. If your in cruise flight and given the conditions, you think there might be a chance for carb ice, you use carb heat for about 30 seconds to make sure there is none, then you turn it off, is that a big deal, not really. When flying behind these engines you should be aware of your surroundings and conditions and fly appropriately, that's being an good pilot.
It's the same thing when you pull the power back for a long time in the air, you have to "clear the engine" on occasion so you maintain some heat in the engine for carb heat. You don't just pull the power all the way back and leave it there.

Another thing, you should be flying your patterns close enough (in any plane) that if you lose an engine you can still make the runway. In something as slow as a Chief or Champ you don't fly big jet plane type of patterns. If you have to fly a long extended downwind, then stay at near cruise power and pattern altitude and then reduce power when you get closer to the runway. These planes will slow down and come down out of the sky very easily in the pattern, it's what they do best.

These are reliable engines and great planes to fly. Remember also that they have no electrical systems, no starter, lights or radio, except a handheld. Those may be factors in your decision to buy one. If your still interested, check out the Aeronca web site, http://www.aeroncapilots.com/ in the forum section. There are very few AD's on the airframe and engine, which most have been taken care of years ago. Get someone who's knowledgeable about Aeroncas to look at the plane your interested in before you pay any money, it could save you lots of time and money in the long run.

Aeronca Chiefs and Champs are fun to fly and relatively affordable.
I've owned my Champ for about 28 years now and I love it, currently it's under restoration.
Jim

Thank you everyone for all the great insight - I appreciate it!It's funny: years ago I restored a 1934 Sanford fire engine. It was powered by a 6 cylinder Continental engine with a Stromberg carb. I had more problems than I could remember with the float sticking on it. These stories are all too familiar!

hey may have Continental confused with Lycoming. my advice to anyone considering a Lycoming powered Chief is to run away.

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Originally Posted by tonycondon

hey may have Continental confused with Lycoming. my advice to anyone considering a Lycoming powered Chief is to run away.

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I agree. The Lycoming is 65 h.p. in name only......probably actually about 55 h.p. By the way, whoever told you that the Continental A65 is unreliable doesn't know what he's talking about. They will even run good when very sick. I have flown Cubs, Champs, Chiefs, T-Crafts off and on for 59 years. I never had one quit. I have had carb ice, but you just watch for it when the conditions are right for the formation. I think the 0-200 is the worse for carb ice. The Stromberg carb is really nothing but an old tractor carb. Their have been, to my knowledge, no AD's ever issued on it. When the delrin needle is installed, a weight has to be soldered on the float to make it seat because it is so light. The steel needle tended to leak. The rubber tipped one worked real well until they started putting junk in the gasoline. Some of the additives in auto fyel(not just alcohol) would make that rubber tip swell up like a pregnant cow and shut the gas off. The Chiefs and Champs are both good little planes.

I had an 85 hp Chief and don't recall that I had problems with ice. The electric start is a big safety plus to my thinking.

Based on 500 hours+ of flying my Champ, I would advise against believing horror stories from someone who probably never flew a Chief or a Champ. The A65 is a very reliable little engine, provided it is properly maintained. Any carburated engine may, under the right set of circumstances, ice up. However, it will tell you what's going on and it is your job to act on it.
The Chief wing flies very well and the plane is a joy to work on. You could do very much worse than to buy one. You might do better, as well: Buy a Champ. They are much more roomy and the view out is way better.

I fly a Chief with an A75. Although I have never had a dead engine while flying, I suspect I will have to be near Vne to get it to windmill. The compression is pretty good.
I haven't had any carb ice issues by simply using the common carb heat practice as I would with any other plane. My experience has always been SEL and mostly smaller aircraft (Cherokee 140, Cessna 150, Skipper, ETC) so the carb heat application is near the same.
Jim said,"Another thing, you should be flying your patterns close enough (in any plane) that if you lose an engine you can still make the runway. In something as slow as a Chief or Champ you don't fly big jet plane type of patterns. If you have to fly a long extended downwind, then stay at near cruise power and pattern altitude and then reduce power when you get closer to the runway. These planes will slow down and come down out of the sky very easily in the pattern, it's what they do best", which is very good advice. When I wish to attempt to impress someone with a really smooth landing, I hold around 1500 RPMs until the tires begin to roll.
Remember, a little power during landing still keeps landing distance shorter than your take-off distance. You can always get the Chief into places you can't get out of with the A65.

Good Flying!

Nothing wrong with the A-65 or stromburg carb, remember the stromburg does not have an accelerator pump so move the thottle slowly or it will cough. When the temp. is lower or humidity high use carb. heat at speeds below cruise, about 2000 rpm. Cold weather use the aeronca restrictor plate to keep the engine temp. up. The proper aeronca method is a restrictor at the cowl outlet not the air inlets. This bathes the engie in warm high pressure air as the air can get in but not out, this will also help keep the cabin warmer as the firwall and engine compartment stays warm, and helps prevent carb ice for the same resons. Fly the pattern with the runway under the jury strut spreader and clear the engin every 30 sec. or so once throttled back. I fly a champ in northern MI all year round including skis durring winter. Greg Wilson

I don't have any experience with the A-65, but I've flown about 165hrs in a C-150 with a Continental 0-200. As previously stated using carb heat as part of the pre-landing ck list is the preventive measure for the Continental equipped planes. I was taught to keep power at 1500RPM abeam the landing zone on downwind, works great in the C-150. I currently fly a 1958 TriPacer with a Lyc 160HP engine, still follow the same pattern procedure. Keeping some power on in the TriPacer is really helpful since the elevator is very weak (low air-flow) w/o power. I also agree that a tight pattern for these old and light aircraft is a good practice. If I remember correctly my first flight instructor said the air induction system on the continental engines was more prone to icing than the Lycoming engines, can't say I've experienced a loss of power due to carb ice in my 20 year of flying. I did have the engine quit on final in a C-150 right after we switched from 80 octane to 100LL...too much lead fouls the plugs. That problem was solved by adjusting the carb. FYI, my C-150 experience was in Wisconsin, same weather as Michigan except we get it 30 minutes sooner.


Joe
;)

I've owned 3286E since 1989, flying it since 1995. Nothing too serious, a few things with fuel caps not venting, a carb that likes to flood. . . but absolutely nothing wrong with either the engine or the airframe. It's an easy plane to land and get confidence in, after the first 15 hours in it or so.

Aeroncas are easy to work on, easy to restore, still have parts being made for them.

Check out the NAA website, join the email list at aeronca@westmont.edu and you'll find more about them.

Go for it, you will not be disappointed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maCVg...KNSv3c4gZZp2Qw

Here are some videos of it flying, one in HD even...with a $37 cam on the wingtip!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7FQQ...=ULB7FQQtAIB4E