Any staff on here know how the trams will be riding people ? I have asked Tram chair, bur sketchy info so far. As a driver, just curious how the hoards are going to react .
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Any staff on here know how the trams will be riding people ? I have asked Tram chair, bur sketchy info so far. As a driver, just curious how the hoards are going to react .
I have been fast walking 1.5 miles daily to get in shape to avoid the trams. I don't know how fast the trams are (anyone know?), but I think I can walk faster considering wait time. Especially if the trams go by full.
I’m with you, I started walking about 2 months ago. I’m more into distance than speed. Up to 3,5, or 7 miles depending upon the time of day, weather, and generally how I feel. Really trying to catch the afternoon heat to get acclimatized. I hate just standing in line for a ride so I guess I’ll be skipping the trams and the shuttle bus back to parking.
If the "Z's" don't know for sure yet? Someone in EAA ArVenture upper management will need to respond. I 'suspect' that no final decisions have been made as we all wait & see how many more Americans wise up and get vaccinated bringing the infection rates down enough to ease all the restrictions.
I think asking someone if they have had the Covid vaccine is a HIPAA Violation.
Bob
No. HIPAA covers health care providers and insurance companies only.
Basically, HIPAA’s laws govern how certain entities handle patients’ private healthcare information.
What entities fall under HIPAA’s privacy rules? According to the Department for Health and Human Services (HHS), they are:
- Health care providers (including doctors, clinics, psychologists, dentists, chiropractors, nursing homes, or pharmacies)
- Health plans (including health insurance companies, HMOs, company health plans, and government programs that pay for healthcare, such as Medicare, Medicaid, and the military and veterans health care programs)
- Healthcare clearinghouses (including entities that process nonstandard health information they receive from another entity into a standard (i.e., standard electronic format or data content), or vice versa.)
Private businesses like restaurants or grocery stores are not subject to HIPAA’s rules, so they can ask customers entering about their vaccination status.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bu...nated-covid19/
Ron Wanttaja
I got the vaccine so I am not concerned about covid. But I remain concerned about catching a common cold or flu because of close interaction. I caught a common cold on the airline to Airventure 2019 and it wasn't much fun. Then apparently caught a different cold on the airline heading home. So two weeks sick.
I didn't catch a cold all of 2020 and don't know anyone that did so there seems some benefit to wearing a mask to prevent colds.
I tried to cover my face on the return flight in 2019 but didn't have a "face covering". Never even heard of such a thing. It wasn't the custom for anyone to wear a mask with a cold then. But I hope it becomes a custom when traveling with a cold to wear a mask. Might be a custom in Asia.
Yep, one thing can be said about the increased hygeine (masks, handwashing, distancing) efforts is that a lot of other than covid stuff went down (seasonal flu, colds, ...). My daughter notes fewer illnesses brought home by her kids from school (serious precautions in place at this private school because the state threatens closing if there is an outbreak there).
Not sure about the trams, but I know the shuttles that run from the UWO dorms will be limited to the seating capacity of the bus. No standing, everyone will need to be seated. And unless the federal mask mandate is ended before then, masks will be required.
Biden's federal mask mandate was only federal workers or federal property, as far as I know. There is no mask mandate but a mask can't hurt on the trams.
I've heard some believe the mask is nothing more than a petri dish. Okay, wash your mask, buy a new one, whatever. Most states have made it optional to wear a mask in most places. But, Bill is right, "a mask can't hurt." They don't weigh much. They aren't heavy. Just wear one. For myself. I think I'm just a little bit happier knowing people can only see a small part of my face. And, I'm positive other people are way way happier by not seeing all of my face.
Wear a mask.
Unfortunately it doesn't apply to just those, it also includes most forms of public transportation.
https://www.transit.dot.gov/TransitMaskUp
Then it applies to trams. Extended to September 13 2021.
https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/M...01-29-21-p.pdf
Looking up "Public Transportation", I find this definition: "Buses, trains, subways, and other forms of transportation that charge set fares, run on fixed routes, and are available to the public...." By that definition, trams would not be considered public transportation (e.g., no fares). Buses to and from the dorms might be.
In fact, EAA could probably argue that the trams were not public transportation in that they are not, in fact, available to the general public but only to the addendees of the event.
[EDIT: Bill Berson pointed out I was in error. The rule covers "conveyances," which should apply to the trams.]
Ron Wanttaja
The order doesn't say public.
It says any conveyance operator.
I believe you build immunity by being infected,not merely exposed. That's how vaccines generally work...the stuck-ee is given a low-grade version of the disease, and the infection triggers the natural responses of the body to generate the appropriate antibodies. That way, if later exposed to a significant amount of the virus, the body is already ready for it. That's why folks get a reaction to the shot itself, it's causing the body's resources to fight back against a relatively denatured opponent. That's what takes the time and care to develop a vaccine; coming up with a dose that provides the patient with protection without giving him or her a dangerous case of the disease itself.
This ain't new.
Smallpox used to kill thousands of people, but if you survived the infection, you never got it again. In the late 1700s, Edward Jenner discovered that people who caught cowpox (a relatively mild, easily survivable disease) also developed an immunity to smallpox. So he deliberately infected folks with cowpox. Not so lucky with most diseases, so the scientists have to spend a lot effort developing a relatively safe version of the disease itself.
Ron Wanttaja
EAA may have some exemption for ventilation?
EAA statement on website is:
Where possible, EAA is adding shuttles and buses to accommodate higher anticipated needs, but there are no distancing requirements for shuttles. We are asking to have bus windows open to increase ventilation inside the vehicles. We also recommend wearing masks when distancing is not possible aboard those shuttles.
I carefully went over the order Bill so helpfully linked and then the subsequent CDC guidances publishers March 23 and May 13. Open air shuttles are never addressed and there is some room for debate as to whether such conveyances are covered by the CDC order. For one, the March 23 and May 13 guidance only refers to "public transportation." Anyway, as I posted earlier, there will be at least one more regulation or explanatory guidance published between now and then. But if we wind up having to put a man on to get on the shuttle, it shouldn't be a big deal.
By the way, according to the CDC rules, military grade chemical/biological/radiological protective masks "do not fulfill the requirements of the order" mask-travel-guidance.html
At the risk of getting shot down... My understanding is that masks reduce (not prevent) the transfer of Covid (and other viruses) FROM the person wearing the mask TO those around him/her. As a courtesy to our flying family, I would hope everyone would wear a mask in crowded situations (trams, buses, exhibition halls). I'll leave whether it works or not for others to debate, but what could it hurt? Vaccines prevent MOST transmission but not 100%. I don't plan on wearing a mask when I'm wandering around the flight line, but I do plan on wearing one in crowded areas and hope others will too.
Goes both ways to various extents. I've been wearing N95 since I got back from Australia in March 2020. Those are fairly effective at protecting the person wearing it. I was fortunate that I had a couple of boxes in my workshop (I'm sensitive to wood dust) and my wife had bought some for our Australia trip fearing that there would still be smoke issues there from pervasive wild fires (fortunately, the rains had put that out by the time we arrived). Even after donating over half my stash to local healthcare workers early on, I had enough to last me until the supply chain opened up again.
Publication described as a "Pretend Journal":
This past year, when an undergraduate biology student at the University of the Fraser Valley approached dean of science Lucy Lee for $2,000 to publish a paper in an academic journal, Dr. Lee had immediate concerns about the request. She’d had a bad experience with the journal in question, the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health, while doing a review for the publication. She discovered a lack of rigour in some of the journal’s articles, was alarmed at its many retractions and corrections, and had concerns with the journal’s practice of publishing an “acknowledgement” issue with a very long list of reviewers to make it look credible.
The publisher, Multidisciplinary Digital Publishing Institute (MDPI), churns out nearly 160 scholarly journals a year, many of them of mediocre quality, according to Jeffrey Beall, an associate professor and librarian at the University of Colorado Denver, and one of the world’s leading experts on what he calls “predatory” open access publishing. Each week, MDPI and other questionable publishers hound Dr. Lee by email, asking her to review submissions that she considers shoddy. Mr. Beall has called this particular environmental publication a “pretend journal.” So when Dr. Lee next saw the biology student, she alerted her to the potential problems and redirected her to more credible scholarly publications, such as FACETS, a Canadian open access journal.
Predatory and mediocre journals are based on the model of open access publishing in which authors pay fees to have their work published online. However, unlike legitimate journals, they bombard academics with spam emails, accept almost all submissions and overstate the rigour of their peer-review processes. They also often conveniently neglect to mention publication fees until late in the process.
https://www.universityaffairs.ca/fea...scam-journals/
Ron Wanttaja
It does call into question as to how there are NO studies to indicate masks are bad. Until mask wear becomes a political issues, then "poof"... there's a report in a "journal."
Damn straight. And *that's* the value of science. When the evidence is overwhelming, science changes its mind. Bleeding WAS once a standard treatment. It isn't anymore, because research proved it harmful.
Science doesn't stick with the past because of tradition or politics (though both can make it hard to implement change). The theory that a meteor caused the extinction of the dinosaurs is a good example. The guy was laughed at, initially. But once more and more evidence was collected, the scientific community came into line.
Though I figure Steve Martin illustrated it best...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edIi6hYpUoQ
Ron "Say, who's the barber here" Wanttaja
Just trying to provide some information based on what I know, and look at what it gets me! Geez! Whether you agree with/like masks or not, per the federal presidential order, this is currently the requirement on any form of mass transportation (commercial flights, trains, local transit buses). Since the shuttle from UWO campus to AirVenture grounds is operated by the entity that operates the transit system in Oshkosh, this order would also apply to that shuttle. Certainly I hope it would change prior to AirVenture, but not holding my breath! Getting back to the trams (which is the subject of this thread), I don't think it would apply there.
:thumbsup:
Bob
As a driver / conductor, looking from someone from staff to answer, when at the Tower turn point, and people like seniors, disabled, families with tired kids are looking to get to bus park to get to museum or parking, what are we supposed to tell them ? Start walking or is there going to be some way for them to get there ? Doing away with green route is going to cause problems unless EAA has it figured out and not telling anyone,
As far as I know EAA has opted out of providing any transport for anyone To/From the Bus Park area. A HUGE mistake in my honest and experienced opinion. I am bracing for some sincerely "unhappy" commentary from the AirVenture guests on this and perhaps one or two more of the changes to the Trams I'll be conducting next month. IMHO the 'New Blue' route is going to create more challenges than problems it is meant to solve.
But like you I'm just along for the volunteering ride and nobody has asked for MY input. They asked the young geniuses from Northwestern.
the same geniuses that came up with "Just in time ordering" for manufactures--thats work out great for truck plants
Has anybody actually read the Northwestern study? Did they specifically recommend eliminating the Green route? If so, did they state a reason? Perhaps I missed the discussion in an earlier thread.
My bet is it was the security people who nixed the Green route. Somebody jumped the queue, bypassing the Security Theatre bag check at the bus park. Or there were so many complaints about same that they decided to show them (us) who’s boss.
There always remains the unlikely "possibility" that if enough guests complain the Green route 'could' be quite easiliy reinstated. We have trams, we have volunteers, and I doubt they threw away the green pennants?
I understand that one of the changes made to reroute traffic was because the city was always on EAA’s case about the traffic snafu at Exit 116 & Hwy 44. Frontage road is going to become one big parking lot as folks que up to park. No one in the study seemed to recognize that paying for parking was the bottleneck. Perhaps EAA should have prepaid vs cash parking areas???
I think time is gonna tell whether bussing people from the bus park to the outer parking lots will be successful or popular. Personally I’m unhappy as I liked to be able to access my vehicle during the day so I always arrived early enough to make it into the former blue lot. Not gonna happen this year.
I don’t see EAA reinstating the Green route on the fly. I don’t think it’s in their DNA or operational mindset. Besides if they did it would mean the whole NWU study was flawed??? Just sayin.
I am still waiting for someone from staff to answer about the green route.
I don't think the trams much entered into the Hwy 44 backup disasters. Mostly that was because of swampy areas and the inability to park people (mostly campers) in a timely fashion at peak arrival times. By the time the Green Tram would be in full swing, most people were set.
Not planning on attending, but it would be fun to see someone trying to enforce any sort of social distancing/ mask wearing protocol on the average Oshkosh attendee. Does anyone know if open carry will be allowed? asking for a friend.
Masks/Social Distancing not required if vaccinated. If not vaccinated, they are recommended, not required.
https://www.eaa.org/airventure/eaa-a...-covid-updates
About the same policies as S-n-F. I've heard mask/distancing was spotty there, and there doesn't appear to have been a post-show breakout.
Firearms, open or concealed carry, are prohibited.
https://www.eaa.org/airventure/about...ohibited-items
Ron Wanttaja