When we were handling parts of the ADI systems on both the G-1, (TC4C) and the Super Connie we always had to keep the parts submersed in ADI fluid to stop the corrosion, if you removed the parts and let them dry, they would corrode over night.
ADI fluid is Alcohol and Water mixed to engine manufacturers requirements.
CubBuilder
You are absolutely correct that I asked for anecdotal evidence about the problems with ethanol in aircraft. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone by questioning their findings. My intent was simple to see what problems people have been experiencing. Most of the information that I have seen outside of this thread is from people relating stories about others. Those that believe they are having ethanol issues seem very certain, but I still wonder if their individual problems could be caused by something else. I'm certainly guilty of misdiagnosing problems. Who knows, maybe I too am experiencing ethanol issues, or am about to. I'm just trying to make sense of the wide range of issues that we are experiencing, from total failure of fuel systems, to major loss of power and performance, to no apparent effect at all. Thanks for the info about the KR tank. That has me worried about my vinylester tank in the Pietenpol that I'm building. It seems that aluminum would be no better as far as ethanol is concerned.
Mmorrison123,
Good question on the EAA forum. Too bad others are quickto judge. I think the debate has only begun.
Some factors to consider in the use of any fuel are decomposition,corrosion, economics, environmental, operational and safety advantages or disadvantages.As far as ethanol is concerned the disadvantages can be overcome. As far as advantages,there are many.
Two considerations:- While an aircraft operates; what willethanol do while it runs through the veins (fuel system) and in the heartitself (the engine)? And while an aircraft is not operational (sits for hours,days, weeks, months); what does ethanol do to the structure as well to itself.
When 100LL disappears or becomes so expensive it willsubstantially ground the current certified general small aircraft fleet and wewill have to turn to either mogas or ethanol. From where I sit, I believeethanol is a viable alternate given the choices.
Mogas by the nature of its manufacture and blend is notsuitable for many aircraft operations. Simply removing ethanol from mogas willnot solve the problems of vapour lock and engine lock. In my opinion theseissues are deal breakers. The only ‘gasoline’ option is creating a new avgas. Iwould hate to see what that will cost.
REAL Ethanol (E85 or purer) on the other hand will causedamage to certain components. So it’s a few components we need to consider modifyingor changing, not the fuel. Seems like a lot simpler solution to me.
Just my humble opinion.
Hi David,
Focusing on the question "Are there any Continental o-200 configurations that make ethanol OK" A quick review of the Regulation Guidance Library (at www.faa.gov) limited to the Type Certificate Data Sheets (TCDS) and Supplemental Type Certificates (STC) for the 0-200A, B, C, D, and X show that 1). only avgas is approved as fuels and 2). there are no STC for ethanol. The EAA's STCs only allow "unleaded automotive gasoline, 87 minimum antiknock index, per ASTM Specification D-439 or D-4818 of any volatility class, A through E, or 82UL AVGAS per ASTM D-6227."
So the short answer is "no" for certificated aircraft and of course this does not apply to experimental aircraft.
Thanks for the Reiteration, Kurt. It's pretty much what I said in the very first reply.
FlyingRon answered the question in the first reply to this thread. He cited the EAA and Petersen STCs that totaly bar any ethanol use whatsoever. Using ethanol implies that your'e using Auto Gas and that brings up more questions. I haven't seen the EAA STC. Todd Petersen also has done a bunch of testing and published a bunch of info on his web site.
http://www.autofuelstc.com/autofuelstc/pa/Home.html
I find that 30 minutes on his site is a mini course on aviation fuel and answers the questions that you asked.
Petersen lists lots of O-200 models approved for STC. He discusses valve seat recession as a problem with small TCM engines among many others. He says that a tank of 100LL every 75 hours should fix it.
I was locked into 100LL on my last plane because when Petersen tested my type, it quit cold. He just moved on to the next one. I bought a new Dodge truck in 05 and it got 20 mpg on non ethanol fuel. When e-10 became prevelent, it dropped to around 15 mpg despite an aftermarket air filter, synthetic oil, tune ups and a presidentialy approved tire guage. I know that pure ethanol only has 70% of the energy of gasoline and reduces range in both aircraft and p.u. trucks by that much. I have a standby generator that is now inop because I gassed it up when the first hurricane came into the gulf.
I use the pure-gas.org web site and avoid e-10 whenever possible. I regard buying e-10 the same as buying a gallon of milk for the kids and finding that it is 10% dilluted with water.
Bob