Criteria for reporting aircraft accidents to or by the NTSB?

Hi,

Last October, an experimental plane that had a new owner crashed at a private airport. The pilot was banged up but no hospitalization. The airframe absorbed the impact but was destroyed.

According to the news report, the wreckage was removed the next week. It was a conventional gear, experimental and got into a landing oscillation that ended when the plane impacted trees 300 ft beyond the end of the runway.

I had expected to read an NTSB report but nothing showed up and this is nearly three months later. So I'm wondering, will there ever be a report beyond the local paper article?

Is there another aviation accident reporting system that might cover this crash?

I knew this particular plane has history with conventional gear landings. It really has to be 'greased' in or it can quickly get into a bad place. Because of this accident, I decided to replace the conventional gear with the tri-gear version even though it adds some weight. But this change also solves a propeller clearance problem. Regardless, I knew about this ground handling risk because I had found and collected the NTSB reports for this model.

Now I am wondering if some landing accidents might never be part of the NTSB database. Are landing accidents 'optional' or is there some threshold?

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

According to NTSB 830, the operator of the aircraft, shall immediately, and by the most expeditious means available, notify the nearest National Transportation Safety Board Office when there is an aircraft accident.

Unless someone crashes into the side of an NTSB office, the only way for them (or anyone else for that matter) to know about it is if it is properly reported.

For sure, you can crash out in the boondocks, clean up the mess go home and not report it and nobody will likely ever know it happened.

I once read somewhere(can't find anything to support now) that with all reported accidents and incidents, NTSB shall investigate and report, but there are circumstances where they do not have to publish reports at their descretion. If my recollection is correct, that might be related to "incidents" only.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Floatsflyer

I once read somewhere(can't find anything to support now) that with all reported accidents and incidents, NTSB shall investigate and report, but there are circumstances where they do not have to publish reports at their descretion. If my recollection is correct, that might be related to "incidents" only.

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NTSB does not have the manpower to investigate every accident. Often an aircraft accident is delegated to the local FAA office. High profile, yes, the NTSB is there.

Where did you look for the NTSB report? Did you look in the online summaries by month?

The NTSB is slow to publish info and even slower to investigate and publish a cause. In real life, the NTSB delegates GA crash reporting to the FAA. Sooooo..... If the FAA was not called, the accident was likely not recorded in the NTSB system. But if it made the evening news, likely the FAA was called.

If the accident was reported, it may take a month or maybe even two for it to show up online.

The definition of an accident is in NTSB 830. If the airframe was destroyed, that certainly falls under the NTSB definition.

But a surprising number of accidents are not reported. You may or may not want to "poke the bear" about what happened. Even if the accident was reported, the pilot or builder may be a little sensitive about talking about it.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

Wes has the right of it; the reporting criteria is in NTSB 830, but it can be open to a bit of interpretation. "Accident" is defined as an occurence in which any person suffered serious injury or death, on in which the airplane receives "Substantial Damage," which is defined as "damage or failure which adversely affects the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component."

If it's a homebuilt, it's probably easier for the owner to dance around whether the damage requires "major repair".... "It's just some dinged sheet metal, I can fix it in a weekend." NTSB 830 includes other criteria for reporting, of course, but they don't really arise in most accidents.

We had one rather nasty accident here ~20 years ago where one of the homebuilt's occupants had a lot of 3rd degree burns and required extensive skin grafting. The owner successfully kept it out of the NTSB records by arguing that it was a taxi test of a vehicle that had not yet received FAA airworthiness or registration...thus wasn't an aircraft.

I've tried to pin NTSB guys down on whether they're required to investigate homebuilt accidents, and no one gave me a yes or a no. Certainly they do, but if a Gulfstream or something subsequently has an accident, you can bet the investigator will shunt the homebuilt aside.

Bob, the accident you're thinking about might be in the FAA Incident database:

http://www.asias.faa.gov/portal/page..._home/datainfo

Select the "AIDS Database Query Tool" link on the right.

Bob, if you can post a location and a more-exact date, I could dig a bit.

Ron Wanttaja

Thanks everybody. I checked the FAA records and they have nothing either. I've already gotten pretty much all of the details from the newspaper report and other than confirming the landing direction and wind. Based upon reported impact trees '300 ft from end of runway, we're pretty sure he was landing heading south. There really isn't much more to add.

For those who are curious:

• 1,700 hrs on airframe
• conventional gear
• O-200
• 850 lbs empty weight
• bought the week before
• airport elevation ~6,600 ft., 5,000 ft, single runway, mountainous area, private strip, 11:00 AM crash

This particular model has history with conventional gear landings. But there are two, tricycle landing gear configurations and both are well documented. I don't like adding weight but a 'flying heavy' is better than a 'crashed light.'

Thanks again,
Bob Wilson

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rwanttaja

I've tried to pin NTSB guys down on whether they're required to investigate homebuilt accidents, and no one gave me a yes or a no. Certainly they do, but if a Gulfstream or something subsequently has an accident, you can bet the investigator will shunt the homebuilt aside.

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Unless the homebuilt pilot's name is John Denver.