What Permit is Needed?

On another topic, Wes wrote that you needed a Fast card to fly in an airshow, which I think is incorrect and needed only for formation and only covers formation.

However,be that as it may; Wes also mentioned that you needed an FAA card to fly a circle around parachute jumpers in a show.
I had never given that any thought and have never been asked to circle jumpers myself. I know Howard Pardue was once asked to circle them in his F8F, but said it wasn't the best plane for that.
Every time that I can recall, it has been a small acro plane that did the circle flight, like Patty Wagstaff or someone. I may have seen Aeroshell T-6 do is once or so, can't be sure.

But here is the question. If you do need an FAA permit to do this, then what does the permit say? It is not really acro flight, even if you might get near 60* bank angle, so it would not be an aerobatic competency card, and it really isn't formation flight, though maybe that is the closest.

Does anyone know for sure,and has anyone done one of these flights?

I believe that it says "Circle jumpers". The whole airshow competency card program is administered by the International Council of Airshows (ICAS). If I had seen this post earlier today I could have asked one of our current resident airshow performers at today's IAC chapter meeting (Rob Holland). I can offer some background. The requirement, as many things do, comes from an incident where two biplanes were following the jump plane at an airshow. Multiple jumpers, jumper number one stepped out. Lead acro pilot did not fly as briefed and cut over from left echelon on the jump plane to the right side and dove after the first jumper. But then jumper number two stepped out. Acro pilot number two was following acro pilot number one and had the bad timing to cut across behind the jump plane in time to collide with jumper number two. Killed both. Very bad.

Rule #1 following jump planes around is that jumpers and other stuff comes flying out when you least expect it. NEVER EVER fly right behind or just below a jump plane. NEVER. Your life depends on NOT doing that.

I have done the airshow opening flag jump a bunch and it has been my pleasure to be circled by the Aeroshell team, Lima-Lima, the late Charlie Hillard, and a bunch of other great folks. Looking out the door across a little bit of airspace into the eyes of one of those guys, and stepping into space over airshow center is a great memory.

If no one speaks up, and you really really want to know, I can ask what the current statement on the airshow competency card that allows a pilot to circle skydivers in airshow waivered airspace is.

Fly safe,

Wes
N78PS

Well I went and poked at FAA Order 8900.1. If you want to see what the requirements that are part of the airshow waiver, look at http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives...provisions.pdf .

I found a note in the fine print that says that they have dropped the endorsement.

"Note: An endorsement of "Circling the Jumpers" on FAA Form 8710-7 is no longer required for the circling aircraft pilots."

But the Air Boss is required to make sure that all of the pilots involved know how many jumpers, altitudes, etc.

Someone must have applied some common sense....

There is also info about who can fly non-aerobatic fly-by's.

Fly safe,

Wes
N78PS

Quote:

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I found a note in the fine print that says that they have dropped the endorsement.

"Note: An endorsement of "Circling the Jumpers" on FAA Form 8710-7 is no longer required for the circling aircraft pilots."

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Correct me if I am wrong but didn't that endorsement originally come about after the filmed mid-air collision between a biplane and a skydiver in New Hampshire? You know...in typical FAA overreaction to a minor issue while they ignored more serious problems.

You are correct. I know some of the "participants".

Not sure if you can call it an over-reaction. That accident, the warbird mid air collision that I witnessed, and I am sure other accidents really occurred because the briefing was not thorough enough, and then at airshow time the pilots got excited and forgot what they had briefed. Once you peel away the facade of vaudeville and wipe away the hero dust, what is done at airshow center is very serious business. Brief the plan, follow the plan, only ask the airplane for 80% of what it can do for you as when things go wrong you will need that safety margin. You can allow yourself room to improvise within your choreography, but be very careful when you do. Gravity and the earth are not your friend.

I once flew a BFR in a Pitts where the CFI, an airshow performer, pulled the engine at the top of a loop. We were at 3500' AGL. We had a good discussion as to what the correct response to engine failure is when you are at 800' AGL airshow center....

Fly safe,

Wes
N78PS

Thanks,
It never occured to me that the permit or endorsment on the aerobatic card would say, "circle jumpers" . That is way too logical and straightforward for anything that comes out of the govt.
Somehow the DOS, (Department of Obsfication) lawyers must have overlooked that one.

I have never even tried to circle jumpers, it seems like it could get out of kilter as you say. I had not heard of the incident that you descirbe. Sad.
I think I have seen Aeroshell do it, but it seems to me that something fairly slow and open cockpit would be the best, like Pitts. And it would be vital to have the jumpers at the airplane briefing to get all the signals straight. Those jumpers may be a litttle different breed also. I have never had the courage to try it, have thought about it a lot. I enjoy watching the good ones like when they jump into the C U stadium at the Boulder-Boulder 10K race, or some football games.

For what its worth, EVERYONE attends the airshow brief. Sometimes a team sends one member, but most commonly everyone attends the brief. And everyone is usually tech inspected by the FAA airshow monitor. If you want to work with the FAA a LOT, become an airshow performer.

Usually the first airplane act circles the jumpers. It can be John Mohr in his Stearman or the whole formation of Lima Lima. The circling aircraft focuses the crowd's attention on the American flag overhead and helps folks who do not regularly look up into the sky find the jumper(s).

Skydiving is one of those personal tests. Showing up and making your first jump gives you an insight into who you are, your self confidence and self esteem, and teaches you about fear of the unknown. Anyone can make one jump. When I was a young professional skydiver I taught first jump course to maybe 400 people. They all came down smiling. Maybe a couple of broken ankles. Something like 32% came back for a second jump. But only a small percentage made more than 1000 like myself.

There is lots to experience and learn in aviation. Step out of your rut and try something new.

Wes
N78PS

Wes as for "step out of your rut", well, don't know if I am in a rut, but I sort of prefer to do my stepping more on solid ground.
I even have a coupon for a skydive and have thought about it, but really don't want to take much risk of even breaking an ankle which would be a pain for some time and might interfere in other things I want to do.

We did go to the vertical wind tunnel in Las Vegas and do the sky riding or what ever it is called, partly for fun and partly to experience it in case I ever did have to use my emergency chute.