Want to own the Bally Bomber?

[CHICAGORANDY]

Just saw the for sale notice on Facebook:

http://courtesyaircraft.com/aircraft/n413me-ballys-bomber-b-17g/

[DaleB]

I just can't imagine pouring that much time and effort into something, just to put it up for sale.

[CHICAGORANDY]

I recall Mr Bally mentioning at AirVenture that he isn't able to fly the plane (I think he said he lost his medical?) so that may play a role in the decision to let it go?

[DaleB]

Oof. That would just plain suck.

[Floatsflyer]

I can't imagine even a well healed single individual buying this for the asking price or anywhere near it. If sold, will probably be bought by a museum or warbird association or similar because of tax advantages.

[Yellowhammer]

Thanks for the information.
I have spoken with Mr. Bally on several occasions regarding his B-17 build. When I first discovered his project a year or two ago, I was blown away. I asked him if he ever thought about doing a P-38. That's when he told me how long he has been working on the B-17 which was pretty much a decade or two so no P-38 aspirations.. For the price Mr Bally is asking you could find a war bird/ military such as T-28. Mr. Bally is a very nice gentleman and was very kind in regards to my questions. He is an inspiration to us all and he is a master craftsman.
I am seriously considering doing a P-38.

[1600vw]

I love this airplane and have nothing but respect for anyone who could do this kind of work. Saying this. This dude is trippin if he believes he will get 1/4 of a million out of this. It is worth its weight in scrap. Anyone who builds anything today knows this. I have a friend building an award winning Onex. He knows it will be worth maybe 1/16th of what he has in it if he ever wants to sell it. He can ask whatever he wants. But getting that kind of cash. Well when cows fly. I cannot say when pigs fly. Someone posted a pic of one flying in the right seat on my FB page.

[jim_p]

A P-38 would be very very cool. Have you calculated what scale it would have to be? I am guessing 1/2 or maybe 60%

[Floatsflyer]

Well when cows fly. I cannot say when pigs fly. Someone posted a pic of one flying in the right seat on my FB page.

Dear EAA Forum readers,

I don't know much about cows or pigs flying, but I do know that turkeys can fly(sort of).

Yours truly,

Les Nessmen
WKRP, Cincinnati

[1600vw]

Dear EAA Forum readers,

I don't know much about cows or pigs flying, but I do know that turkeys can fly(sort of).

Yours truly,

Les Nessmen
WKRP, Cincinnati


I remember that episode...lol..

Back to regular programming...lol

[AndyGoldstein]

I recall Mr Bally mentioning at AirVenture that he isn't able to fly the plane (I think he said he lost his medical?) so that may play a role in the decision to let it go?
I don't know anything about any medical issues Mr. Bally might or might not have. But I saw the airplane at OSH and talked to his pilot. The reason given that he can't fly the airplane was that he does not have a multi engine rating, and his insurance company won't let him fly it without one. (Since it's an EAB and he's the builder, the FAA has no problem with it.)

- Andy

[CHICAGORANDY]

Of all the things I've lost over the past 69 years... I miss my mind the most - lol

[Bill Greenwood]

The idea that this is only worth "scrap " value doesn't take into account how fine this airplane is. If you haventt seen it youd be amazed, it looks 95% like a B-17 except maybe it is half the size, I has 4 real radial engines and retract gear just like a real one. only when you stand next to it it is less than head high. If it flys well, no handling or cooling problems for instance I think the price is realistic. Yes. you could get a genuine T-28 for that price, but what you would have is a nice flying airplane that is just like a hundred others. This Bally Bomber is unique and is about the coolest thing around. Id love to have it if I had the money.

[1600vw]

The idea that this is only worth "scrap " value doesn't take into account how fine this airplane is. If you haventt seen it youd be amazed, it looks 95% like a B-17 except maybe it is half the size, I has 4 real radial engines and retract gear just like a real one. only when you stand next to it it is less than head high. If it flys well, no handling or cooling problems for instance I think the price is realistic. Yes. you could get a genuine T-28 for that price, but what you would have is a nice flying airplane that is just like a hundred others. This Bally Bomber is unique and is about the coolest thing around. Id love to have it if I had the money.

Oh no I get it. Saying it is worth scrap may be a little rough but it is what it is. IMHO It will never bring this kinda cash. It would be cool to be proven wrong here, but I doubt that will ever happen either. Like I said, my buddy is building an award winning Onex. His builds have already won awards at Oshkosh. But he knows he will never get anything close to what he has in it. Just because this bird looks like a B-17 don't mean it is worth what one cost even scaled down. Again I hope to be proven wrong. Time will tell. But we all know how stories like this end.

Again I hope I am wrong. Please someone prove me wrong. One very nice looking airplane or B-B-17. the first B stands for..Baby.

[Dana]

The idea that this is only worth "scrap " value doesn't take into account how fine this airplane is. If you haventt seen it youd be amazed, it looks 95% like a B-17 except maybe it is half the size, I has 4 real radial engines and retract gear just like a real one. only when you stand next to it it is less than head high. If it flys well, no handling or cooling problems for instance I think the price is realistic. Yes. you could get a genuine T-28 for that price, but what you would have is a nice flying airplane that is just like a hundred others. This Bally Bomber is unique and is about the coolest thing around. Id love to have it if I had the money.

It has Rotax engines, not radials. While it's a magnificent build, I doubt that it "flies well", at least by ordinary sport plane standards; it's probably rather demanding. I have also heard reports that it's somewhat underpowered. Not a plane you'd just jump in for a $100 hamburger run.

[martymayes]

Well, it could be that pesky operating limitation #17 that is standard issue for EAB airplanes:


17. The pilot in command of this aircraft must hold an appropriate category/class rating. If required, the pilot in command also must hold a type rating in accordance with FAR 61, or a letter of authorization issued by an FAA Flight Standards Operations Inspector.

[Bill Greenwood]

Dana, the listing from Courtesy says Hirth engines, not Rotax. I was mistaken about the radial part, I thought I saw them that way at Oshkosh. The engines are 60 hp so 240 total which doesnt seem bad for an empty weight of only 1800 lbs. And how would you expect it to fly poorly, what do you base that on? Have you seen this plane or better yet seen it fly?
A real B-17 flies very well.
As for ratings, a pilot was flying it at Oshkosh, so he must have had a rating. Maybe all you need is a regular light twin rating to get a Letter of Authorization.
And maybe you guys dont think this plane is extraordinary and want to find negatives about it, but I think it is special.

[1600vw]

Bill I don't believe anyone is saying this airplane is not special. I also don't believe anyone is being negative about this airplane. What we are being is realistic.

[Bill Berson]

The four cylinder Hirth engines were direct drive (and not factory proven as direct drive). Hard to say what power in direct drive.

[martymayes]

May produce lots of power but it that's not converted into thrust it will fly like it's under powered.

[Dana]

Dana, the listing from Courtesy says Hirth engines, not Rotax. I was mistaken about the radial part, I thought I saw them that way at Oshkosh.
My mistake. But Rotax or Hirth, they won't sound like radials.

The engines are 60 hp so 240 total which doesnt seem bad for an empty weight of only 1800 lbs. And how would you expect it to fly poorly, what do you base that on? Have you seen this plane or better yet seen it fly?
A real B-17 flies very well.
I have heard it said that it's underpowered. That may or may not be true. But I didn't say it would fly poorly, I just said, "I doubt that it "flies well", at least by ordinary sport plane standards." A real B-17 flies very well, but it doesn't fly like a light sport plane.

And maybe you guys dont think this plane is extraordinary and want to find negatives about it, but I think it is special.
Absolutely it's special, and a wonderful thing. The discussion is whether it would be worth the asking price to any potential buyer.

[rwanttaja]

Like any piece of art, there's the physical cost of creation, and the actual value of the item to a particular buyer. Most pieces of art aren't practical, so their "performance" is usually not an issue.

Take, for example, an ermine violin. Most people wouldn't buy it just to play it, but if you find the right Trekkie, he or she might be willing to shell out good bucks for it.

The Bally Bomber is obviously not a good "everyday" aircraft, with limited capacity, increased maintenance, and restricted speeds. To pay a quarter-million dollars for the aircraft, the buyer must value it by its artistic merit, not by its ability to provide an aerial platform. To quote Indiana Jones, "It belongs in a museum." I hope Mr. Bally finds a buyer that values the aircraft on this basis.

Ron Wanttaja

[AndyGoldstein]

And remember, there's exactly one of these in the world. That alone is of value to people.

- Andy

[1600vw]

And remember, there's exactly one of these in the world. That alone is of value to people.
- Andy

In aviation a one off is not a good thing.

[Mike Kitslaar]

Like any piece of art, there's the physical cost of creation, and the actual value of the item to a particular buyer. Most pieces of art aren't practical, so their "performance" is usually not an issue.

Take, for example, an ermine violin. Most people wouldn't buy it just to play it, but if you find the right Trekkie, he or she might be willing to shell out good bucks for it.

The Bally Bomber is obviously not a good "everyday" aircraft, with limited capacity, increased maintenance, and restricted speeds. To pay a quarter-million dollars for the aircraft, the buyer must value it by its artistic merit, not by its ability to provide an aerial platform. To quote Indiana Jones, "It belongs in a museum." I hope Mr. Bally finds a buyer that values the aircraft on this basis.

Ron Wanttaja

I completely Agree. Well said

[crusty old aviator]

I saw this young gal depart KOSH the last day of Oshkosh ‘18. It was hard to reconcile the sight of a B-17 lumbering down the runway accompanied by the whine of four screaming Hirths. $275K is a nice retirement fund and there are plenty of people with that kind of disposable income who are EAA members.

[CHICAGORANDY]

A year later I'm wunderin' - it's no longer being listed at Courtesy Aircraft - did someone buy the Bally Bomber?

[Airmutt]

Still listed on Barnstormers. Price is $185k OBO.

[CHICAGORANDY]

Thanks for the lead. Quite the mark-down. Hopefully they will recover at least some of their costs should a buyer materialize.

https://www.barnstormers.com/cat_search.php?keyword=bally+bomber&search_type=keyword&body=&headline=&part_num=&mfg=&model=&user__profile__company=&user__last_name=&user__first_name=&user__profile__country=&specialcase__state=&user__profile__city=&user__profile__uzip=&specialcase__phone=&user__email=&my_cats__name=&price__gte=&price__lte=

[Dave Stadt]

Dana, the listing from Courtesy says Hirth engines, not Rotax. I was mistaken about the radial part, I thought I saw them that way at Oshkosh. The engines are 60 hp so 240 total which doesnt seem bad for an empty weight of only 1800 lbs. And how would you expect it to fly poorly, what do you base that on? Have you seen this plane or better yet seen it fly?
A real B-17 flies very well.
As for ratings, a pilot was flying it at Oshkosh, so he must have had a rating. Maybe all you need is a regular light twin rating to get a Letter of Authorization.
And maybe you guys dont think this plane is extraordinary and want to find negatives about it, but I think it is special.

Talk to the pilot when there isn't a crowd around to find out how it flies. Non feathering props would make it very exciting if you lose an engine which is very possible with four two strokes.

[DaleB]

It's a truly impressive project, and I love the fact that someone actually built it. That said -- I'm much more glad it's not me trying to sell it. It's a very, very specialized airplane with one seat, four engines, and precisely one suitable mission (fly around slowly and look like a B-17). Your pool of potential buyers is vanishingly small. Personally, I can't imagine building something like that unless I personally wanted to fly the heck out of it... because I'd know the chances of selling it for any amount that wouldn't make me cry are very, very slim.