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Sonex1517
11-17-2011, 10:30 PM
I hope every chapter member and every member of the EAA staff reads this post. Maybe, just maybe, it will make them think....

I went to a local chapter meeting this evening. It's not the first meeting of an EAA chapter I've been to, but it was the first at this one. Unfortunately, my experience mirrors other experiences I have had.

I am in my mid 40's, a private pilot, used to own an airplane, and am currently building a Sonex. Been an EAA member for years.

Tonight, sadly, when I went to the chapter meeting and arrived early, only one person said hello. He is 85 years old,not a pilot, and as far as I can tell, no one said hello to him, either. He just likes airplanes and lives nearby. Great guy.

I emailed the chapter president, copied EAA's chapter email address, and included my phone number. I will be interested to see if anyone responds.

Why would I post this?

Here is why:

I wish I could say I am surprised. I am not. I wish I could say the experience was unique. I cannot. In fact, it mirrors much of my experience, and that of many "younger" people like me. In fact, it has been my experience at other EAA chapters. I feels like a closed door that when we knock, no one bothers to answer.

If your chapter, if EAA, if aviation, wants new members, younger enthusiastic people, to become involved, try looking around. This is why I am posting this on an EAA forum for all to see - personally, I hope they send this to Rod and he writes an editorial about it. EAA and aviation needs a wake up.

I came to try the chapter on for size. Sure didn't fit.

Next meeting, look around. I won't be there, but maybe another new face will be. Say hello. Ask how they are, what they are doing. Maybe they are new to aviation, just interested. Maybe they are building something. Never know.

Hangar10
11-18-2011, 12:05 AM
One visit and that's it? You are surprised that no one said, "Heeey Robbie, come on in here and tell us all about things!"

Question... does your chapter ask if there are any guests or new members in attendance? If not, you might recommend that they start. This is a good opportunity to let others know who you are and what your interests are. In addition to that, does your chapter do a pancake breakfast or anything? If so, did you volunteer to help out?

You may wonder what I am getting at... well, I joined our chapter a little less than 3 years ago at age 37 and I got a similar type of reception. I didn't bother to introduce myself when asked if we had any guests (I was already a member and didn't think they were talking to me), but I didn't run and tuck tail... I offered to help cook breakfast at our upcoming pancake breakfast. Everyone looked at me like, "who is this guy?" Know why they did that? Because no one knew who I was. I knew that, but I also knew that they would get to know me (and visa-versa) if I hung around, which I did... and the next month, I was there again... at the meeting, at breakfast, at the local fly-ins, etc. All these guys are people just like you and me... they don't know who they don't know... if you don't make yourself available and allow them to get to know you, well, they just won't know you.

My point... get involved and people will get to know you real quick. Could be that your chapter is in need of some fresh blood in order to get things fired up. Not long ago I didn't know anyone at our chapter... now I am our newsletter editor. I attend all of our functions and even help plan some of them. I'll flip pancakes, make coffee, sweep the floor, set up and tear down tables, mow the grass, whatever needs doing and whatever allows me to be at the airport. Heck, just a few months in I had a fellow member (now a good friend) say to me, "You know, when you first came around some of us didn't care much for your approach, but now that we've got to know you we really appreciate your efforts." It was a little awkward, but I took it as a compliment and have continued to pitch in. Is my story typical? I don't know, but that's how it went, and that's the way I got to know people at our chapter. Now my family and I know most of them, and they know us.

How about starting a new job? You don't quit on the first day because everyone isn't your friend, do you? I would like to encourage you to go back next month and the one after. Volunteer at your events. Help set up for meetings. Do whatever needs doing! If some of those old codgers don't immediately appreciate your effort (I say that affectionately), give it time... after while they'll be glad that they don't have to make EVERY pot of coffee or put up ALL the chairs.

I take it that you are building (or perhaps have built) a Sonex? Someone there is interested in that... perhaps more than you would think. In the short 2+ years I've been at our chapter I have become good friends with many of the fellas and their families. My wife and son are involved too... that helps a lot. Several of us (I'm talking 20+ at times) eat dinner on Friday nights and a few of us are even spending Thanksgiving together. It is a lot of fun and there is no better group of people to be around. Give it more of a chance, and let them know that you are there. Remember, I am younger than you are, and might be the youngest member here that regularly attends meetings and such. I'll just say that it is what you make of it. Keep after em.

Tom Downey
11-18-2011, 01:09 AM
Getting into some of these chapters is like breaking into an old boys club.

Barnstorm
11-18-2011, 08:04 AM
My local chapter (EAA 174) ALWAYS asks as part of the beginning of each meeting for any new people or guests to stand up and introduce themselves.

I think this should be on every clubs agenda.

.

Mike Switzer
11-18-2011, 08:14 AM
Our flying club always has a round of introductions (everyone) at the beginning of our monthly meeting - which is good when people attend that aren't there much, but somewhat amusing at the meetings where the same 8-10 people that never miss a meeting are the only ones there.

Chad Jensen
11-18-2011, 08:54 AM
I'm a member of two Chapters...Chapter's 129, Bloomington, IL, does a round of intro's for the new people to get up and say hi, and I had hoped that all Chapter's were like this...frustrating to hear this. 129 is very active, and is extremely welcoming to new people. Chapter 252 has been open and friendly to me as well, though I've only been to one meeting, and it was a demonstration meeting that had lots of new faces, so we did an entire round the room intro for everyone. I doubt that's a common occurrence each month, but I felt welcome nonetheless.

I would certainly encourage you to go back next month, and if nothing else, raise your hand, stand up, and introduce yourself as the new guy, then get involved. Mark has some great suggestions, and I had similar events happen to me with 129...ended up holding all offices except Treasurer over the course of 8 years or so...in fact, even though I live it Wisconsin now, I was told that I was elected Secretary at last nights meeting! ;)

Give it another shot...:)

Mike Switzer
11-18-2011, 09:19 AM
in fact, even though I live it Wisconsin now, I was told that I was elected Secretary at last nights meeting! ;)

Several organizations I am a member of have a history of electing people to office who miss the meeting & couldn't defend themselves... ;)

Chad Jensen
11-18-2011, 09:20 AM
Yeah...I had some forewarning about this too...luckily I was voted down by "one" vote. Just got the news. Phew!

Hangar10
11-18-2011, 09:40 AM
Wow! Some groups do a whole round of introductions? Seems like that might take a while, but it sounds neat. It isn't unusual for us to have 50-60 members in attendance, but I might recommend that we do that once or twice a year.

One thing that we try to do is to sponsor new members. For example, if I bring a new member (or prospective member) to a meeting, I would do the initial introduction... who they are, how we met, brief description of interests and background, etc., and then they pal around with me until they get comfortable... and I try to get them to do what I do (i.e. the chairs go here, the sound system is over there, etc.). It helps to make them feel involved without having to stand up in front of 50 strangers to introduce themselves. It doesn't always work out, but we have picked up a couple of new members over the past year that enjoy being involved. One of them is our new webmaster!

I can remember coming to chapter 10. I procrastinated for several years because I just KNEW that everyone there was a master builder and pilot while I was just a lowly youngster with a thin log book. As time went on I found that wasn't the case at all. Heck, some of them will admit that they couldn't build a proper bird house. But while everyone may not be a builder, all of them have some interest in flying. You are among friends whether it seems like it up front or not.

I will have to admit, I really don't have much experience with EAA chapters outside of chapter 10 other than what I read in some of their newsletters. I suppose that I am fortunate to be involved with chapter 10 because 1.) The membership is active and outgoing, and 2.) We are right here in the middle of aviation central... Tulsa, Oklahoma. Heck, there are more than 10 airports/strips within 10 or 15 miles of my home airport, several of them put on picnics throughout the year... the activity and interest is evident around here. I am sure that these facts help a lot, but if your chapter or area is not like this, how about trying to organize an event or two. See if there might not be an interest within the chapter to put on a pancake breakfast or SAturday afternoon hamburger picnic. Don't forget to encourage getting the families involved... it makes for more fun AND support. Even if the event starts out small, at least it will get people together and talking airplanes, and perhaps other events.

I know that I am describing things from an active members perspective, which may not do much for the new guy trying to "break in" to a new group. I guess that my point is simply that you show up and act like you belong there, because YOU DO! The comaraderie will soon follow.
Dang I'm long winded... no wonder they made me the newsletter editor. :)

This is another thread that I wish was in the Chapters section.

Chad Jensen
11-18-2011, 09:44 AM
This is another thread that I wish was in the Chapters section.
Done!

Bugs66
11-18-2011, 09:54 AM
Chapter 79 in Spokane always asks if we have any guests or new members at start of every meeting. I am not sure what you were expecting on your first visit but I second what Hangar10 said. You need to be a little more involved and demonstrate you have a sincere interest. If you are around often and help the next thing you know you might be riding in the B-17 the next time it shows up. I know many of our newer members have. After you have been there a while and folks get to know you, perhaps you might consider running for a Chapter president to make some meaningful changes.

rosiejerryrosie
11-18-2011, 10:00 AM
What I'm hearing here is that many 'newbies' expect to be greeted as newly arrived treasures (which they are) but, human nature does not support everyone approaching an unknown figure entering a circle of friends. Maybe human nature needs a bit of a shove - appoint a long time member (who knows everyone) to be the official greeter whose job it is to be alert for newbies and make sure they are welcomed and introduced. Might help to overcome that awkwardness that often attends these situations.... Just a thought.

Hangar10
11-18-2011, 10:08 AM
If you are around often and help the next thing you know you might be riding in the B-17 the next time it shows up. I know many of our newer members have.

I can second that possibility. Not that volunteering is about what you get, but hey, Bugs is right. We (my wife and I) have been on the B-17 and the Tri-Motor.


Maybe human nature needs a bit of a shove - appoint a long time member (who knows everyone) to be the official greeter whose job it is to be alert for newbies and make sure they are welcomed and introduced. Might help to overcome that awkwardness that often attends these situations.... Just a thought.

That is a great idea! We actually discussed appointing an official greeter, but I don't think we ever designated anyone. I'm making a note of that so that we can bring it up again.

Janet Davidson
11-18-2011, 10:31 AM
Our chapter (252) has talked about this quite a bit. The board try to make a point of introducing themselves to new faces, and our (fantastic) newsletter editor has a write up about each new person in the newsletter. I believe he has a sort "introduce myself" info sheet that they can fill in as well to help with that.

Chad Jensen
11-18-2011, 11:01 AM
Our chapter (252) has talked about this quite a bit. The board try to make a point of introducing themselves to new faces, and our (fantastic) newsletter editor has a write up about each new person in the newsletter. I believe he has a sort "introduce myself" info sheet that they can fill in as well to help with that.
He sure does Janet...I just filled mine out, and sent it to him last week!:cool:

Tom Downey
11-18-2011, 11:05 AM
Done!

Yer good… :) I wish the other web pages I attend were as well supervised/monitored.

Sonex1517
11-18-2011, 11:08 AM
I appreciate all of the responses very much. If this were the first time it had happened, I would not have posted. I apologize for doing so in the wrong forum.

At a different EAA chapter some years back, the first night I was there they sat and discussed closing the chapter. I interrupted, introduced myself, and in the long run ended up editing the newsletter a while as well as volunteering some.

I would point out that not everyone has time to volunteer - if I had the time I would love to. Like many people these days work has become overwhelming, and my time with my family comes first - it's more precious than ever. And yes, they help with the Sonex a bit. My son likes pulling rivets. I love seeing him do it.

I would also point out I am not there seeking attention or looking for pats on the back or an ego boost.

My point is two things.

First, if you see a face you don't know at a Chapter meeting say Hi. Do you really need to appoint someone to do this?

Second, there is no way to avoid or diplomatically state the fact that aviation is aging, and for many younger people this simply makes us less interested and involved. Don't get me wrong - I respect anyone with time and experience in aviation, or in life for that matter. But as others have experienced, the old boys club is sometimes part of the problem. I is not polite to say that, but it is a problem.

I received two wonderful responses to my email to the Chapter president and another member. Will I go back? Maybe.

But my point was that I am not alone in feeling this way and while I may be the one to post it, and be vocal, take a long look and if it's just me I'll take that criticism to heart. Folks, aviation needs young people. Young eagles is fantastic. But we need adults too....

Chad Jensen
11-18-2011, 11:08 AM
Yer good… :) I wish the other web pages I attend were as well supervised/monitored.
And Hal probably would've beat me to it...but he's off today...;)

Hangar10
11-18-2011, 12:29 PM
I don't guess I have any real solutions to the problem. Each individual has their own expectations and they conduct themselves differently... can't help you there. As for having time to volunteer... personal choices. I have a 7 year old, work full-time (and then some) and I have a project in the works, but I make time for the needs of the chapter. Again, a personal choice, but I have put other hobbies on hold AND I have the support of my family. Not trying to compare myself to anyone else... just trying to describe how I manage to do it.

The old boys club? Hmm. They must act differently in Chicagoland than they do out here. Many of our regulars have been members since the 70s or 80s, one is a charter member going back to 55 (he is also one of the first 100 EAA members... heck, the first 50!) and another has his name hanging with Paul's (1st year) on the Warbird's Hall of Fame... just to share a couple. NONE of these guys act like their (our) club is exclusive. They have welcomed me in and allowed me (and others) to run with ideas. These guys also offer rides to breakfast or fly-ins... they don't have to do that, but I'm glad they do.

As for needing pats on the back or an ego boost... not me. Hey, if they come my way through hard work, great... but it isn't my goal.

malexander
11-18-2011, 02:02 PM
Hey Robbie:
How about this. Attend the next chapter meeting, introduce yourself then volunteer to be the chapter's director of hospitality. Might raise a few eyebrows but then again, could be a real door opener.
OK Mark, how's the Piet coming along? You need to have Geoff bring you over to Twin Lakes sometime.

Marshall Alexander

Hangar10
11-18-2011, 02:33 PM
OK Mark, how's the Piet coming along? You need to have Geoff bring you over to Twin Lakes sometime.

Marshall Alexander

Hey Marshall, the Piet is coming along ok. Slow at times, but I'm planning to get up there tomorrow and do some metal work.

steveinindy
11-18-2011, 03:52 PM
Getting into some of these chapters is like breaking into an old boys club.

Yeah, there's a few like that that I have encountered. I've noticed that a lot of them are more or less a type club masquerading as an EAA chapter. Going looking from homebuilding advice from them and their finding out your not building a Sonex/Vans/Zodiac/etx is...just not going to go smoothly after that.

That said, I've found two really great chapters here in the Indy area. I count myself very lucky.

Hangar10
11-18-2011, 10:28 PM
Reading through some of this thread again it seems that there is a enough blame to go around... I suppose the real message is two part...

1. If you are a member of a chapter, try to make the new guys feel welcome. Find out what there interests are and what brought them to your chapter.

2. If you are new member just walking in, ask for a copy of the newsletter and also ask what events are coming up that you might attend or even help with. Prepare to make a few visits before things start to feel like home, but if you pitch in it will be more fun. Get involved and make it YOUR club too... then pay attention to how you treat the next new guy. Especially if you are a younger member... eventually it WILL be YOUR club to manage and maintain, and other younger members will probably relate to you a bit easier (less intimidating) at first... take an interest in them and get em hooked! They are your long term members! If you don't have the time to commit to regular appearances, well, it may take a bit longer to warm up to everyone. Don't give up, it's a lot of fun.

One more observation that somewhat shapes/slants my opinion... I too am very lucky to have chapter 10 right here in my back yard. A great group of folks, and I this is what I think of every time someone mentions an EAA chapter... apparently that is not the case, but I would think that any group could be fun with some proper direction and effort.

Off the "my chapter is better than your chapter" soapbox.:P

Frank Giger
11-20-2011, 04:01 AM
I'm such a big ham that I strolled up to my first EAA meeting with my "practice" rudder over my shoulder. This did a few things:

1) It let me know if I was in the right place. There are two organizations meeting at the same time - the EAA (very blue collarish) and the Birmingham Flying Club (not to say they're different than us, but they have a cocktail hour with wet bar and catered food table with an awful lot of jackets over shirts with ties).

2) It established that I was building a plane and needed a LOT of help.

3) It derailed the meeting! After a lot of initial "wow, that's a great job" stuff they realized that I wanted a critique and advice and slowly but surely the piece of craftsmanship was devalued to being a piece of something else.

We had a young guy (my age) show up a few meetings later and he was a bit overwhelmed by his welcome, as it was the opposite of being ignored. He's building an RV-something and had a lot of questions and advice thrown his way; and since there's a sort of RV builder group around was also referred to them, as they'd be the resident experts.

He never showed up again. I think we scared him off, to be honest.

Our chapter's active membership is pretty small - about ten or twelve - with folks coming off the "reserve membership" roles now and then to help out with events and meetings.

Last meeting we elected officers and I escaped by pleading youth and inexperience; they bought it with a grin and then served notice that everybody takes a turn doing something official eventually. One of the guys elected made the mistake of taking a potty break; heck, my back teeth were floating but I wasn't moving (I know how stuff like this works)!

Some of our guys have never built an airplane and haven't flown in years - we even have one guy that's not even a pilot but digs airplanes; one would be hard pressed to figure out who they are at a meeting or event, though.

And yes, I'm the youngest at the meetings (but not by too much), which is a big plus in my book. These guys have forgotten more about airplanes and flying them than I will ever learn, which means I have this huge human interactive research library to draw on.

Heck, I'm so ignorant that I've had to ask people to explain what the question they're asking about my build means!

"How are you going to place something something gascolator something something firewall something something vapor lock something something leak?"
"The what with the what?" is my usual reply.

kedens
11-23-2011, 08:43 PM
I would like to point out a couple of reasons guests at an EAA chapter may not be recognized. First I think many people feel ackward to go up to someone they don't know and start a conversation. Second it is easy to get involved in hangar flying and not even notice that a guest has came into the room. I have been guilty of both.

I have used an analogy of visiting a new church in that if no one welcomes you the odds are that you will feel this is not the place for you. I have encouraged our members to make a special effort to make guests feel welcome and show them we have something to offer that will be a benefit. You have to figure out what makes people tick and what they are looking to achieve. I say our pancake breakfasts are mostly social events and not all people are comfortable in a social setting but they may be very interested in building an airplane or learning to be a safer pilot so we try to offer something to interest them also.

Ken Edens
Chapt 1398

DannO
01-16-2012, 06:36 PM
Not only do I, as President, but rather an enthusiest, start each meeting with, "Do we have any guests or new faces with us tonight?" But then I also have each member who is currently building a project stand (or sit), give a little update. Ideally, the members meetings is where I get the members to interact, be involved and make that person have a little spotlight. It opens up questions and a whole lot of interaction among those present. Also, I can't stress the importance of making sure YOU, as a leader make the first impression by introducing yourself to a new face but make it your priority to introduce that new face to the others.

Treetop_Flyer
01-16-2012, 07:10 PM
I'll echo what others have said. In EAA 307, we also make sure to ask if any guests are present at the start of each meeting and we ask them to introduce themselves. We also have a Membership Coordinator appointed to welcome new faces at each meeting and hand the new person off to another "friendly" member. We are also planning to get official name tags printed up via EAA Chapter 1095: http://www.eaaapps.org/nametags/. The plan is for our membership coordinator to hand these out as people walk in the door for each meeting and collect them at the end of the meeting (though we're still deciding whether we want to saddle the membership coordinator with this task). I know I was intimidated by my local chapter the first couple of times I showed up. Everyone was so much older than me and they all had airplanes (or were building airplanes) and had tons of flight hours. Luckily a couple guys took me under their wing and a couple years later...they elected me VP of the chapter. Now I also chair our local "Learn to Fly Day" event and I am heading up our new "Eagle Flights" program for 2012.

The key is for the leadership of the chapter to do just that...lead by example. The rest of the membership will follow.

skeeter_ca
02-22-2012, 02:31 PM
I've been wanting to get to a chapter meeting in my local area but have been putting it off. I don't want to be just sitting in the corner listening to others talk but I am not an out going, walk up to strangers and shake thier hand type of guy. Actually it is kind of hard for me to make a social event. I guess you could say i'm shy. I have started my project but it is going kind of slow. Perhaps i should just buckle down and start going to meetings. It has got to be a motivator for my project.


skeeter

LostUpNorth
02-29-2012, 12:50 PM
Sonex1517 - It is truly sad that this happens. Regardless of how big a chapter is, there should be an opportunity for new introductions. It's not like there are 50 new members every meeting. Had you shown up at our chapter and many other chapters you would have been treated quite differently. I think it's easy for a chapter to get wrapped up in meeting minutes, procedure and protocol. It's easy to turn something that should be fun into a business meeting. I also think it's easy for chapter members to be very friendly... to each other. Maybe in large chapters it's easy to catch up with old friends once a month and overlook the new guy.

I can only suggest that rather than give up, go back to the next meeting and the meeting after that. If you're an EAA member, I'd say it's your job as a member to make sure what happened to you NEVER happens to anyone else who walks into that chapter. If the chapter is large then it would be in their best interest to create a "welcoming committee" and appoint people to that committee. Those people would be in charge of seeking out new members at meetings and making sure they get acquainted and plugged into like minded folks within the chapter.

Don't give up! Change it!

Best of luck.

EAA in name only
04-28-2012, 02:03 PM
When I had my kit delivered I invited my local chapter (I was already a member) to visit for a show and tell.

-One of the club officers looked at the "motivational poster" of a factory airplane on my hangar wall and told me "Yours won't look that nice."
-Another officer clapped me on the back and went "Thanks for volunteering your kit to be the new club project. What's the combination to your hangar and we'll work on it while you're gone."
-They've asked for updates for the chapter newsletter, the first two times I sent them images and a hundred word update, they never ran anything. The third time they asked I told them to use what I had already written but was never used, got a blank look in response.


I'm polite when they stop by but that's about it, I don't bother with meetings anymore and just do my own thing. The local Tech Rep is a great guy though.

steveinindy
04-28-2012, 05:04 PM
One of the club officers looked at the "motivational poster" of a factory airplane on my hangar wall and told me "Yours won't look that nice."

I can't say that I agree with his (lack of) tact, but he's got a point. A lot of people get really disappointed when their aircraft doesn't turn out EXACTLY the way they dream of or the way the ones in the factory advertisements look. He obviously could have worded it better but there is something to be said for trying to encourage realistic expectations.

There was a guy at one of the little airports I used to hang out at as a kid back home who was so pissed that he hadn't produced something that everyone fawned over and would "obviously" win Oshkosh Grand Champion (or whatever that award for best looking project of the year is called) that he went off the deep end and pulled the plane out of the hangar and proceeded to destroy it with an ax and then set it on fire. I think there was likely some hefty underlying mental illness involved but all I can say is that he's probably lucky it didn't have an insurance policy on it and wasn't flying yet or he would have had a LOT more questions to answer. I don't recall what exactly happened to him because I was like 10 or 11 at the time.


Another officer clapped me on the back and went "Thanks for volunteering your kit to be the new club project. What's the combination to your hangar and we'll work on it while you're gone."

I would imagine that it was meant as a joke. I've heard the same thing said numerous times over the years and it's always meant as a good-natured bit of humor.


They've asked for updates for the chapter newsletter, the first two times I sent them images and a hundred word update, they never ran anything. The third time they asked I told them to use what I had already written but was never used, got a blank look in response.

As someone who does a lot of freelance writing:

Rule #1 of any submission: request that they let you know that they have received it. You would not believe the amount of crap that either the USPS "misplaces" or that gets lost in cyberspace.

Rule#2 of writing: never assume malfeasance unless you have direct proof or can eliminate all other possibilities. The "blank look in response" probably indicates that you're assuming more than is actually going on.

RV8505
04-29-2012, 12:53 AM
Robbie, I'm in the same boat. I'm 2000 miles from the nearest chapter where I know anyone and pretty much alone out here in CA. It's tough but I drug my plane out of the hanger and poished and made a effort to meet anyone that showed up at the airfield today. It was very productive and met some great people. Hang in there and go back or find another local chapter that fits.

Trevor Janz
05-08-2012, 11:08 AM
I do want to focus on growing our chapters and need all the feedback we can get. Would like to hear more about what is working with other Chapters. I was conversing via email with the president of the Raleigh Chapter and he has family events and model building events for kids. He continues to grow his chapter by getting kids and families involved. Please post and/or send me an email with suggestions and ideas. tjanz@eaa.org

So far, any Chapter member or leader that I have spoken to, since I took the new position as Manager of Chapters, has been an absolute pleasure to talk with. We have amazing passionate members!

Thanks!