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View Full Version : How can I get my local EAA Chapter out of bed with the local cops and FAA?



choppergirl
03-24-2017, 04:33 AM
Probably the #1 reason I won't join my local EAA chapter, is it seems like every other scheduled meeting is about having some FAA or local cop give some speech about aviation law.

While I am not advocating any club should actively break the law (that's my job!), they should at least not be a shill and a tool and acting as an extension of the police state.

When I go to a club about building and flying airplanes, I want to hear and talk about building and flying airplanes. I want to see everybody else's project, hear about updates about them, hear about who needs help, and talk about building and flying airplanes, and maybe even watch someone give a demo about how to do something related to building and flying airplanes. I want to hear about upcoming fly-ins at other chapters or discuss ways to improve attendance at our own fly-ins. Or random presentations on interesting or crazy planes or aviators from the past. Maybe even on a small scale, having a "free goodies table" to... trade stuff, sell stuff cheap, or give away free aviation related stuff (old magazines, books, etc, if nothing else).

I don't want to hear an FAA representative give a speech about changes to aviation law. Seriously, I don't.

I don't want to hear a local cop give a speech about how he's in charge of enforcing new Drone Flying Laws. Seriously, I don't.

I don't want to hear that it's against club rules to take a Young Eagle up flying without an extra chaperon in the plane. Seriously, I don't. To think someone is going to try to molest a kid while also flying a plane... is just stupid.

I don't even really care about eating lunch while I am there, beyond maybe having some drinks and snacks on a table to munch on while we listen to presentations or stand around talking with other members.

The meetings are so dry and stale, they are actually kind of... painful.

And worse, I'm thinking, if I joined this club, are they going to rat and narc me out someday for something petty and stupid?

Do I really want to expose myself to that kind of extra needless threat, by surrounding myself by members being brainwashed into being hallway monitors?

If club meetings don't talk about building airplanes and flying airplanes, why should I even bother to come to the meetings, let alone join?

Is this just late mature flying club stage malaise?

Was it different in the old days?

Did things use to be fun?

Some old timers, let me know...

...and is there any way I can change this, or should I just give up on EAA?

Kyle Boatright
03-24-2017, 04:51 AM
I assure you, everyone prefers a lively project visit or a how-to program. But older guys may not be very active, so it may come down to you to put on a program or two...

1600vw
03-24-2017, 06:49 AM
I feel your pain. I did not give up on the EAA but gave up on the clubs. In my area it's about the same. They don't push the legal stuff, but the clubs are about eating and that is it. There are three local clubs to me and all are like this. Two clubs have maybe three members. The answer is not easy. You will get flack from those who say you are part of the problem by not joining a club like this and trying to turn things around. Then you will get flack from the clubs for even mentioning this. No one wants to hear any of this.

The eaa does have some active clubs and those who live by one is very lucky. But not every area has active eaa clubs. IMHO the best you can do is support the EAA. I contacted the EAA about starting a new club in my area. The people at the EAA who are in charge of helping others do this contacted me. The informed me that we have clubs to me that are local. They may not be the most active, but what made me believe I could do any better, and they were right. The best I could do would be to join one of these clubs and try to be a spokes person for one of these clubs and turn things around.

What I found, I support the EAA. But the clubs are for others in other area's. Those who have an active club that builds and flies. You are very lucky for not everyone has this, even though they do have EAA chapters in their backyard.

Tony

P.S. I hope replying to this thread does not mean I am on old timer...lol

cluttonfred
03-24-2017, 09:28 AM
I have been to both EAA meetings in several locations in the USA and LAA meetings in the UK. They are rarely a young crowd and most of the presentations have been pretty corny. My favorite ones were along the lines of, "Let's meet at Bob's house/hangar next week and he can give us a tour of his half-finished KR2 and then we can shoot the breeze and have a beer." My suggestion would be not to give up on your local chapter, but also try to find one or two or three folks in your area more in line with your thinking. Maybe it will stop there, maybe over time as a small group you could inject some new life into your chapter.

martymayes
03-24-2017, 09:54 AM
Yes, most chapters have a social component as the centerpiece.

Those all farts probably reached the old and boring stage of life because they mostly followed the rules and used good judgement. Probably even once or twice had someone rat or narc them out for doing something petty and stupid, only back in those days it was called getting smacked on the butt with a paddle. I think that is illegal today.

DaleB
03-24-2017, 10:13 AM
My favorite ones were along the lines of, "Let's meet at Bob's house/hangar next week and he can give us a tour of his half-finished KR2 and then we can shoot the breeze and have a beer."
We call that our "Builders Meeting". We have our membership meeting where we deal with the business of running the chapter, followed by a presentation that's usually pretty good. Over the past year we've had a couple of trip reports with slide shows (like the epic Super Cub trip at 10K+ over the Southwest), how one member silkscreened his panel, making wing ribs from aluminum sheet, a discussion about gasoline (mogas and avgas), the University program in which they are using drones for agriculture, etc. Yeah, we've had the FAA in a couple of times for what turned out to be very interesting presentations.

Then we have the builders meeting, once a month, Saturday morning at someone's hangar, garage or basement to see their project under construction, being worked on, newly finished/bought/overhauled or whatever. Coffee and donuts and a morning of discussion and fun.

rwanttaja
03-24-2017, 10:36 AM
We call that our "Builders Meeting". We have our membership meeting where we deal with the business of running the chapter, followed by a presentation that's usually pretty good. Over the past year we've had a couple of trip reports with slide shows (like the epic Super Cub trip at 10K+ over the Southwest), how one member silkscreened his panel, making wing ribs from aluminum sheet, a discussion about gasoline (mogas and avgas), the University program in which they are using drones for agriculture, etc. Yeah, we've had the FAA in a couple of times for what turned out to be very interesting presentations.

Then we have the builders meeting, once a month, Saturday morning at someone's hangar, garage or basement to see their project under construction, being worked on, newly finished/bought/overhauled or whatever. Coffee and donuts and a morning of discussion and fun.
Similar to what goes on in Seattle. We don't have that many active builders (most are in the suburbs, near the smaller airports) so it's a project visit every couple of months, plus the standard meeting once a month.

Having been a chapter president a number of times, I know the pain of trying to arrange programs/speakers for the meetings. It's tougher in an older chapter, too (ours is over 60 years old), not only because you end up with a lot of older, passive folks (fewer potential presenters), but because the chapter has DONE most subjects many times already.

"Next month's program will be a presentation by Dynon Avionics."

"We had them just recently!"

"Uhhhh...that was actually five years ago. They may have new products by now...."

If you're not happy with the programs in your chapter, the solution is easy. March up to the chapter president and say, "Let me plan the programs for the next year." THEN you can have some real neat stuff, and no doubt everyone in the chapter will thank you.

Otherwise, it reminds of the joke about a bunch of guys on a camping trip. One guy has been doing all the cooking, and everyone else has been complaining.

"All right," he tells them. "The next guy to complain gets to be the cook." The rest reluctantly agree to this.

The next day, while the rest are out hiking, the cook dumps a bunch of dirt, twigs, and an old tennis shoe in the stewpot and starts boiling it. The other guys get back, and the cook ladles out the night's meal.

"For cripes sake," yells one man. "What did you do, cook the damn forest floor?"

He pauses for a moment and adds, "Tastes good, though......"

If you don't like the chapter programs, volunteer to "cook".....

Ron "I'll take seconds" Wanttaja

DaleB
03-24-2017, 11:49 AM
Similar to what goes on in Seattle. We don't have that many active builders (most are in the suburbs, near the smaller airports) so it's a project visit every couple of months, plus the standard meeting once a month.Yep... I should say, we have monthly builders meetings when the weather isn't bitter cold, OR scorching hot, OR when someone has an indoor construction project going on. :)

Ron "I'll take seconds" Wanttaja
Indeed. I'm just now putting the finishing touches on some slides that I want to present at one of our meetings. In fact, with a little more polishing I think it would make a dandy EAA webinar on "Things you probably don't know about Light-Sport (but think you do)".

LooneyBird
03-24-2017, 01:37 PM
I am a "younger" member and submitted a list to the president of our chapter. Our chapter is made up of older folks, 50's to 90's with most in the 60 to 80 range. I am 40+ so no spring chicken. Would my list of speakers entice you, or do I sit with the fuddy-duddy's?

It was a lot of work just to get the first 7 to show. The rest of the list is still in progress.

Here was my list:

1) Commissioner from our Airports commission (MAC)
2) Col. Polashek of the 937th MN Air Wing
3) Alan Klapmeier of One Aviation and co-founder of Cirrus
4) Chris Henry from EAA HQ with a B-25 Bomber presentation
5) John Bjornstad of Tsunami (homebuilt in pursuit of speed record)
6) Eric Trueblood from Aircorp Aviation talking about the Aircorps Library
7) Member presentation on Alaska Ski-plane trip (a door prize we had from our holiday party)
8) Fagen Fighters - Discuss thier museum of WWII aircraft
9) Dale Klapmeier - Current CEO of Cirrus
10) FAA - How to start a project, who to call, when, what is required...
11) Siera Sue II - P-51 flown out of a nearby field have owner or author of restoration
12) Rare Aircraft - Declined they restore antique aircraft
13) Loss of control Conversation
14) IAC folks discuss boxes and training opprotunities
15) Kermit Weeks - Could we possibly get him to come?

I would be interested in your feedback as I think the key to growing chapters is gaining younger members. In our day of instant gratification would an online chapter be a possibility? For instance I want to research Auto-engine conversion with high horsepower, this seems to be a very small niche of people and not many in my chapter are experimenting in that area.

Good luck and don't be afraid to join a chapter and let your influence out, change to the chapters is just like building an airplane or eating an elephant.

Weasel
03-25-2017, 06:27 AM
Try Chapter 1189. Good Ole southern hospitality. Also will require a move to the deep south although you could be a member from anywhere and just travel across the country to the meetings every month :)

weasel

Mike M
03-25-2017, 08:13 AM
"If you're not happy with the programs in your chapter, the solution is easy. March up to the chapter president and say, "Let me plan the programs for the next year." THEN you can have some real neat stuff, and no doubt everyone in the chapter will thank you."

As a past chapter president and current chapter safety rep and FAAST rep, I heartily concur. Heartily. Really heartily.

Mayhemxpc
03-25-2017, 02:10 PM
Agree with Mike M. However, there is always the possibility that the management is perfectly happy with doing the things the way they have always been done and are unwilling to change. The solution then is to find another chapter. As was also pointed out, the great thing about being a pilot is that you can travel some distance to another chapter that is more in line with what you would like.

I just got back from my chapter meeting. Yes, it finished with grilling hot dogs and hamburgers, but that is mostly an opportunity to sit down and talk airplane stuff. For example, one of the women in our chapter is a mechanic who works for the Smithsonian. She told us about twhat she is doing in the ongoing restoration of the B-26 FLAK BAIT. Cool lunch discussion. The main presentation was about how to build a Stratux and use it as an ADS-B-in device. We have had presentations by people who flew their GA aircraft around the world, about training the Afghan Air Force how to fly and maintain aircraft (did you know there is no word for "turbine" in Dari?) and other things that keep my 13 year old interested in coming. We also have a vibrant YE program. Heavy on participation, lots of youth, low on the rule books. (We just do the right thing because it is the right thing to do, not because it is mandated by some rule.) Yes, most of the people are older. (Comment from one, also at lunch today, "I remember one time, 80 years ago...") But we also have young people, some of whom were introduced to flight through the YE program, and are now pilots in the Chapter and CAP.

I can't believe my chapter is unique, so, if -- after you offer to help build a more interesting program -- you remain unhappy...find another that better meets your desires!

Jim Heffelfinger
03-25-2017, 03:49 PM
Choppergirl's rant is not at all unique AND National has been aware of this "condition" called 'aging of the chapters' for a number of years. It is the reason for Chapter Leadership weekends at OSH, the on the road Chapter Leadership Boot camps, the monthly chapter video magazine. chapter e newsletters, and the list goes on and on. Even a speakers bureau listing of presenters. https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-chapters/eaa-chapter-resources/eaa_speakers_bureau
My chapter has gone from over 200 members in the 90's to the on-paper membership of ~50. We see about 10-12 at any meeting anymore. Getting in new (not necessarily young) blood is a challenge that , like many other chapters, remains elusive.
As I have addressed in other similar threads my kids (mid 30s to 40) do not do clubs - Asking any of the "clubs" [Moose, Elks, Shriner, Lions, Yacht Clubs, Car Clubs......] and you will get the same answer - membership is aging and new members are hard to find - even harder to retain. They just do social/philanthropic (volunteer) activities differently - Much of which is because of the device you are reading this posting on.

Getting someone to organize presentations is a on the face an easy job BUT I assure you it is not so and takes a personality with strong social skills and LOTS of follow through
So, as has been noted - Just because the chapter doesn't do much should be taken as need for your energy to step up and be programs chair. I guarantee you will be thanked - profusely.
https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-chapters/eaa-chapter-resources

FunInAviation
03-26-2017, 05:27 AM
We had our monthly meetings on a Thursday night at a local college for years, struggling (and begging) to get people to come to the meetings, having maybe 20-30 people in attendance on the good nights. Now we have discovered what people really want:

1. Hanging out at the local airport.
2. Fellowship and wild flying stories.
3. Coffee and Donuts.

We concentrate more on lengthy fellowship, with short presentations at the end of the meetings. Now attendance is between 75-100, with very little advertising (no begging). Through habit and consistency, they all know to head out to the airport, to the same hangar every first Saturday of the month. Here's a video of one of our monthly meetings:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDm-XQ8BS1Q

1600vw
03-26-2017, 08:08 PM
"If you're not happy with the programs in your chapter, the solution is easy. March up to the chapter president and say, "Let me plan the programs for the next year." THEN you can have some real neat stuff, and no doubt everyone in the chapter will thank you."

As a past chapter president and current chapter safety rep and FAAST rep, I heartily concur. Heartily. Really heartily.


No it is not that easy. Some are happy with the way things are and I will leave it at that.


We had our monthly meetings on a Thursday night at a local college for years, struggling (and begging) to get people to come to the meetings, having maybe 20-30 people in attendance on the good nights. Now we have discovered what people really want:

1. Hanging out at the local airport.
2. Fellowship and wild flying stories.
3. Coffee and Donuts.

We concentrate more on lengthy fellowship, with short presentations at the end of the meetings. Now attendance is between 75-100, with very little advertising (no begging). Through habit and consistency, they all know to head out to the airport, to the same hangar every first Saturday of the month. Here's a video of one of our monthly meetings:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDm-XQ8BS1Q

To the ones whom do not have active clubs. Posting something like this in a thread like what we have here, is like rubbing salt into a wound.

Tony

FunInAviation
03-27-2017, 04:58 AM
Facts about our chapter since going to the coffee/donut/meeting format:

1. Membership enrollment has tripled over the past 2 years (more funds for the chapter and the National EAA).
2. The Members love the new format.
3. Members bring their families to the meeting. (Spouses, kids, dogs, friends)
4. All ages in attendance.

turtle
03-27-2017, 01:38 PM
...and is there any way I can change this, or should I just give up on EAA?

If I were you, I'd give up on the EAA. Here's why.

Flying is very structured and regulated. Building an experimental doesn't change this by much. A mid-air collision because a pilot didn't follow the law, hurts just as much, regardless of what you are flying. An aircraft in a 'transponder required area' that wanted to 'stick it to the man' by not having it calibrated is a hazard to all flyers. Most builders are pilots. While they'd argue whether an AN bolt is superior to a grade 8 bolt, they all know and accept that they have to follow the rules they are given.

Now, some quotes from you:

About obtaining a PPL

Take a written test or two online, pass it, and pass a few essential flight simulator check rides maybe (the kind you sit in and it moves around perhaps), and you are good to go.

I am not going to, nor ever will pay $XXXX for an instructor, or that amount of gasoline, just to demonstrate I can fly around. It's just absolutely ludicrous. Maybe if you wanted a commercial license to fly a big old bus in the sky loaded with passengers... sure... but a little GA plane... pfft.

This thread

While I am not advocating any club should actively break the law (that's my job!), they should at least not be a shill and a tool and acting as an extension of the police state.

are they going to rat and narc me out someday for something petty and stupid?

by members being brainwashed into being hallway monitors?

and finally, your sig

My Six Swords of Freedom: disobedience defiance resistance revolution sedition & sabotage
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. By definition, those that obey, must be slaves.

You completely trivialize what it is to fly and the privileges of the PPL, and by doing so, belittle every PPL holder and owner of a 'little GA plane'. You seem to be very anti-authoritarian with terms like 'police state' and how it's your job to break the law. Calling people shills, narcs, slaves and brainwashed is not a way to make friends with adults. Anti-authoritarian and piloting are mutually exclusive. Basically, your beliefs are at odds with 99% of pilots, builders and any organization that represents them. They would also make you an extremely poor pilot.

While there is always room for improvement in any club, you need to decide if a small program change would placate you or would you still be unhappy sharing space with 'slaves' you obviously disdain?

Cary
03-27-2017, 05:04 PM
If I were you, I'd give up on the EAA. Here's why.

Flying is very structured and regulated. Building an experimental doesn't change this by much. A mid-air collision because a pilot didn't follow the law, hurts just as much, regardless of what you are flying. An aircraft in a 'transponder required area' that wanted to 'stick it to the man' by not having it calibrated is a hazard to all flyers. Most builders are pilots. While they'd argue whether an AN bolt is superior to a grade 8 bolt, they all know and accept that they have to follow the rules they are given.

<snip>

You completely trivialize what it is to fly and the privileges of the PPL, and by doing so, belittle every PPL holder and owner of a 'little GA plane'. You seem to be very anti-authoritarian with terms like 'police state' and how it's your job to break the law. Calling people shills, narcs, slaves and brainwashed is not a way to make friends with adults. Anti-authoritarian and piloting are mutually exclusive. Basically, your beliefs are at odds with 99% of pilots, builders and any organization that represents them. They would also make you an extremely poor pilot.

While there is always room for improvement in any club, you need to decide if a small program change would placate you or would you still be unhappy sharing space with 'slaves' you obviously disdain?

As I read through your first post, Chopper Girl, I wanted to say the same things that Turtle said, but he (or she, I don't know) said it better. Ordinarily I don't like ad hominem comments about others, but there're a couple of lines from Top Gun that seem to fit you. Iceman is talking to Maverick:
You're everyone's problem. That's because every time you go up in the air, you're unsafe. I don't like you because you're dangerous.

Later, he says:
Maverick, it's not your flying, it's your attitude. The enemy's dangerous, but right now you're worse. Dangerous and foolish.


For very good reasons, primarily safety, aviation must be highly regulated, and having discussions with those who know more about those regulations than you do is valuable. I go to the local monthly EAA IMC Club meetings, yet I keep up with the regulations on my own, and I've been an IR pilot for 42 years. I've been flying for more than 44 years, I was once a CFII, a SE charter pilot, and I've got more than a few hours in my logbook. I've taken more checkrides than you have fingers. You think I don't know how to fly in the clouds legally, how to stay out of trouble with ATC, how to live? I absolutely do, but all of us are students in aviation, no matter what our experience or training. It is impossible to know everything that there is to know about aviation.

Actually, if you can't change your attitude a bit, I'd just as soon that you don't learn to fly, that you don't build an airplane, and that you stay out of the sky. It'll be a whole lot safer for the rest of us, who understand the need for and abide by the rules and regulations.

Cary

Bill Berson
03-27-2017, 06:14 PM
EAA IMC Club?
First I heard of that since I joined EAA 43 years ago.
Is that the current trend of EAA now?

Auburntsts
03-28-2017, 04:00 AM
EAA IMC Club?
First I heard of that since I joined EAA 43 years ago.
Is that the current trend of EAA now?

EAA and IMC Club merged a little over a year ago. At the National level IMC Club got their own page on the EAA website and a folder on this site (it's the first folder in the Aviation Interests section on the forum homepage). At the local level, from what I can tell, the merger has been less obvious. In any event, I wouldn't call it an EAA trend, just another area in aviation that interests many of us in the E-AB world.

1600vw
03-28-2017, 04:54 AM
As I read through your first post, Chopper Girl, I wanted to say the same things that Turtle said, but he (or she, I don't know) said it better. Ordinarily I don't like ad hominem comments about others, but there're a couple of lines from Top Gun that seem to fit you. Iceman is talking to Maverick:
You're everyone's problem. That's because every time you go up in the air, you're unsafe. I don't like you because you're dangerous.

Later, he says:
Maverick, it's not your flying, it's your attitude. The enemy's dangerous, but right now you're worse. Dangerous and foolish.


For very good reasons, primarily safety, aviation must be highly regulated, and having discussions with those who know more about those regulations than you do is valuable. I go to the local monthly EAA IMC Club meetings, yet I keep up with the regulations on my own, and I've been an IR pilot for 42 years. I've been flying for more than 44 years, I was once a CFII, a SE charter pilot, and I've got more than a few hours in my logbook. I've taken more checkrides than you have fingers. You think I don't know how to fly in the clouds legally, how to stay out of trouble with ATC, how to live? I absolutely do, but all of us are students in aviation, no matter what our experience or training. It is impossible to know everything that there is to know about aviation.

Actually, if you can't change your attitude a bit, I'd just as soon that you don't learn to fly, that you don't build an airplane, and that you stay out of the sky. It'll be a whole lot safer for the rest of us, who understand the need for and abide by the rules and regulations.

Cary

So you believe because Chopper Girl would like to attend a club were more then eating and sitting around talking about ones dog's health is not her style. You blame her and tell her it's her attitude that must be changed. I agree 100% with Chopper Girl.

You need to go out to one of these club meetings we speak of. The local one close to me had one the other day. The President of this club has all but turned off every local aviator. Not one will fly into this man's field. It is an attitude of his that turns people off. He has maybe three members of his club today and one is his non flying wife. I belonged to this club until the day the President came at me with fists flying. All I did was ask a question.


But lets blame the new member. There is a saying..It's the fool who keeps doing the same thing and expecting different results.

I myself don't want to share the skies with those whom believe their anus don't stink. Those types get you killed.

Tony

Auburntsts
03-28-2017, 06:09 AM
So you believe because Chopper Girl would like to attend a club were more then eating and sitting around talking about ones dog's health is not her style. You blame her and tell her it's her attitude that must be changed. I agree 100% with Chopper Girl.

You need to go out to one of these club meetings we speak of. The local one close to me had one the other day. The President of this club has all but turned off every local aviator. Not one will fly into this man's field. It is an attitude of his that turns people off. He has maybe three members of his club today and one is his non flying wife. I belonged to this club until the day the President came at me with fists flying. All I did was ask a question.


But lets blame the new member. There is a saying..It's the fool who keeps doing the same thing and expecting different results.

I myself don't want to share the skies with those whom believe their anus don't stink. Those types get you killed.

Tony

i think you missed Turtle and Cary's point. They are not slamming her opinion of her local Chapter, which is shared by many. Rather it's her overall attitude towards aviation and apparent disdain for authority and rules, as demonstrated by her own posts, that isn't sitting well with them (me as well). Look I don't like a lot of regulation nor the cost of flying either but I understand why things are the way they are.

At the end of the day aviation isn't for everyone.

martymayes
03-28-2017, 07:46 AM
T., I think you may have missed the point as well.

Please allow a non-aviation anecdote which is how I sum up post #1: Imagine an organization of motorcycle riders, all own Goldwings. The bikes they ride and activities they participate in are a statement about the social structure and attitude of the group --they are conservative, law abiding riders that come to a complete stop at a 4-way stop sign in the middle of Iowa. They have monthly meetings, invite guest from the the local police cycle division or the MSF to give talks and presentations on how to make their riding activities safer and more enjoyable. They have "show and tell" with a new modular style helmet.

Then one day a potential new member shows up with a sport bike or rat rod Harley, laments that the group has one foot in the grave, that they should run off the "pigs" and "helmet weenies" and transition into something resembling a rouge Hell's Angels chapter. Suggest and/or offers presentations and practice on how to perform "wheelies" or "stoppies" in freeway traffic, methods for evading police that attempt a traffic stop and how to swing a chain while riding so can smash motorist windshields without losing balance. At the same time, doesn't want to be rat'd or narc'd out for such minor transgressions. Do you think this would be well received by the group?

Nobody is assigning blame. Just pointing out the potential new member may not fit in - and why.



i think you missed Turtle and Cary's point. They are not slamming her opinion of her local Chapter, which is shared by many. Rather it's her overall attitude towards aviation and apparent disdain for authority and rules, as demonstrated by her own posts, that isn't sitting well with them (me as well). Look I don't like a lot of regulation nor the cost of flying either but I understand why things are the way they are.

At the end of the day aviation isn't for everyone.

Jim Rosenow
03-28-2017, 08:00 AM
If I were you, I'd give up on the EAA. Here's why.

Flying is very structured and regulated. Building an experimental doesn't change this by much. A mid-air collision because a pilot didn't follow the law, hurts just as much, regardless of what you are flying. An aircraft in a 'transponder required area' that wanted to 'stick it to the man' by not having it calibrated is a hazard to all flyers. Most builders are pilots. While they'd argue whether an AN bolt is superior to a grade 8 bolt, they all know and accept that they have to follow the rules they are given.

Now, some quotes from you:

About obtaining a PPL



This thread




and finally, your sig


You completely trivialize what it is to fly and the privileges of the PPL, and by doing so, belittle every PPL holder and owner of a 'little GA plane'. You seem to be very anti-authoritarian with terms like 'police state' and how it's your job to break the law. Calling people shills, narcs, slaves and brainwashed is not a way to make friends with adults. Anti-authoritarian and piloting are mutually exclusive. Basically, your beliefs are at odds with 99% of pilots, builders and any organization that represents them. They would also make you an extremely poor pilot.

While there is always room for improvement in any club, you need to decide if a small program change would placate you or would you still be unhappy sharing space with 'slaves' you obviously disdain?


+1 Turtle!....and with that I suggest we quit feeding the troll(s). Been wanting to say that for four days :-)

Jim

Bill Berson
03-28-2017, 08:36 AM
I haven't been to an EAA chapter meeting recently. The last one seemed mostly RV.
Hard to imagine how an ultralight person, such as OP here, would feel welcome at an IMC club meeting.
I don't think the OP can change the nature of interest at a chapter meeting.

The solution for her, is to attend an EAA Ultralight chapter meeting, if they exist.
But ultralights have largely disappeared, ending that means of aviation entry level.

I volunteered at Arlington ultralight runway past few years. Last year no ultralights attended. The FAA Notam required all ultralights arrive and contact Tower. ?? (Ultralights don't have radios)

I understand the OP's frustration with over regulation.

martymayes
03-28-2017, 10:19 AM
The solution for her, is to attend an EAA Ultralight chapter meeting, if they exist.
But ultralights have largely disappeared, ending that means of aviation entry level.

The search shows 24 UL chapters in the US

In my state, there is an active (more active during the summer, both days) ultralight group I found through facebook a couple years ago, so there may be other options.

Mike M
03-28-2017, 12:16 PM
Back to the original question, "...and is there any way I can change this, or should I just give up on EAA?"

This is a volunteer organization. Oh, yeah, we have paid staff, but we chip in to hire them. They have to do "what they're told" to a great extent. I haven't heard of chapter officers being paid megabucks, so if I'm wrong, one of them will surely chime in with a copy of the last personal 1040 :)

If you don't like the chapter programs, volunteer to change them. Certainly there might be some chapter officers who don't like what you want to do. But. If you don't like what a volunteer is doing it's pretty hard to fire them. So you volunteer to take their place. Run for chapter office. Mobilize the huddled masses yearning to breathe free. Win the election. Change the programs.

Let us know how that works out. We wish you well. Really. We do. We always need new ideas and new vitality. Until you step up to the plate you won't know how fast the spitball is going by.

1600vw
03-29-2017, 05:56 AM
The new person is the problem...Wow. She flies ultralights and is not welcome. Again wow. Try to step up to the plate. The people we are talking about have such ego's they want to hear none of it for they are the ones in charge. It's their club, you don't like it move on to another club. I wonder how I know this.

For all those who believe they know everything. Attend one of these club meets in my area. I won't even post club or EAA chapters in my area for it would matter not what one you attended. Attend one then post back what you found. Let me know when you are going to attend and I will be there.

Tony

Mike M
03-29-2017, 10:48 AM
The new person is the problem...Wow.


Nope.
The new person is the SOLUTION!

1600vw
03-29-2017, 11:52 AM
Nope.
The new person is the SOLUTION!



I don't believe that either. But they are not the problem. The problem as I see it. Those who have been doing this for a long time are in charge. They are getting tired and really do not want the headache. Things have been going smooth and no one complains but the new member who is seeking something more then shooting the bull with a few folks once a month over some food and coffee. If these people would only step back and remember what it was like to be younger and wanting to fly and build then just sit in a chair, in a hangar, and talk about the good ole days.

Tony

Mike M
03-29-2017, 03:09 PM
I don't believe that either. But they are not the problem. The problem as I see it. Those who have been doing this for a long time are in charge. They are getting tired and really do not want the headache. Things have been going smooth and no one complains but the new member who is seeking something more then shooting the bull with a few folks once a month over some food and coffee. If these people would only step back and remember what it was like to be younger and wanting to fly and build then just sit in a chair, in a hangar, and talk about the good ole days.

Tony


Tony,

The new person is the solution because even without new members the organization will still change. But not for the better. When the old folks die. But just to keep you happy let's try another one: "water is wet". :)

rwanttaja
03-29-2017, 03:57 PM
But just to keep you happy let's try another one: "water is wet". :)
Then why do they call them, "Dry Lakes"? :-)

Ron Wanttaja

Mayhemxpc
04-02-2017, 07:54 AM
I did not do an investigation of Choppergirl's background. My answer just responded to the question she posed. I stand by that response. As for the other issues...well, if she comes to our meetings, maybe we can work with her. Convince her that a LITTLE anti-authoritarianism is a good thing. (Question everything.) In fact, if we didn't have at least a little of each of the six hazardous attitudes the FAA goes on about, we would either be poor pilots or never take to the skies at all. (Or at least five of the six of them.)

But, If Choppergirl were to show up in my EAA Chapter I would advise her:

To break the rules, you must first master them. (Although I believe this to be true, the thought is not mine, it is a Geneva watch manufacturer's motto. It took me awhile -- read: some maturity -- before I understood this. I therefore have some tolerance for young people who do not yet understand that.)

Mastery requires understanding, not just accepting the rules as they are.

The fundamental characteristic of the rational soul is to ask WHY? This is the key to understanding. So don't just defy...seek to understand. Then you can make a rational decision.

And, from the movie Dr. Strange: "It is not all about you."

Mike M
04-02-2017, 10:14 AM
...To break the rules, you must first master them....

ABsolutely. If you don't understand the rules, how the heck will you ever enjoy breaking them?

Mayhemxpc
04-02-2017, 03:04 PM
ABsolutely. If you don't understand the rules, how the heck will you ever enjoy breaking them?
:thumbsup:;)

1600vw
04-03-2017, 05:55 AM
Tony,

The new person is the solution because even without new members the organization will still change. But not for the better. When the old folks die. But just to keep you happy let's try another one: "water is wet". :)

Yea you are right this is all about making me happy...As to trying another one. We have three local chapters. I have been to all three and turned away by two and did not even inquire to the third. I want to fly-in to this chapters. The third is located at a class C towered field. Even though we are told we are welcome to fly in, it's not something anyone flying something small like what I fly and my buddies fly will do. We avoid that class C airspace. The biggest issue is getting there. If one was to read ones OL one will find they really can not fly into this field because of the OL " operating Limitations.". But then again this chapter does no building or flying. They hold a breakfast every so often and have some airplanes fly in to show off and that is it. The closest Chapter that I know of that is active in doing aviation things like flying is over a two hr drive.

But this is all about me and making me happy...That comment right there shows the problem we face when speaking of EAA Chapters and those who are involved with these chapters. Its a way of thinking that needs to change...Who is it again that believes in doing the same thing will give different results?

But lets blame the new member pointing this out to the old timers as they sit drinking their coffee and talk about how everyone wants to rock the boat.

Tony

DaleB
04-03-2017, 07:15 AM
I want to fly-in to this chapters. The third is located at a class C towered field. Even though we are told we are welcome to fly in, it's not something anyone flying something small like what I fly and my buddies fly will do. We avoid that class C airspace.
Why would two chapters turn you away? Never heard of that. We have builders, flyers, UL pilots, and non-pilots who aren't building but are just interested.

As for the third having meetings at a Class C airport, if you have a radio and a transponder it's not that big of a deal. If you don't it's a phone call ahead of time. If you're still unwilling I would assume you have car. Really, you can't blame the chapter if you're not willing to make it to a meeting.

1600vw
04-03-2017, 07:56 AM
You would need to understand these chapters to understand why this happened. I am not here to beat on anyone. You would need to be in the area or go to one of these meeting to understand this. One club told me that they are all but done, well actually both have told me this. I will leave it at that.

We are talking small HB here. While we have hand held no one has a transponder. But it's in the OL that holds one back. No over flying congested area's. All area's around this airport are congested. Then if the Tower wants you to go into a holding pattern you are over some very hostile area's for this holding pattern. The head man for ATC at the tower is a really nice man, I have spoke with him. He said wait in that holding pattern for the green light if you have no radio. I just dropped it. But its all in the OL. One can not do this in our little airplanes.

Tony

1600vw
04-03-2017, 08:04 AM
ATC or the head man at ATC even said he welcomes Ultralights to fly in and would love to have them. But no one will over fly the area's to get to this airport in an Ultralight and I really do not blame them. This man at ATC or Tower is a really nice man.

Mike M
04-03-2017, 08:05 AM
... If one was to read ones OL one will find they really can not fly into this field because of the OL " operating Limitations."

Tony

Which operating limitation prohibits operating a properly equipped experimental amateur built airplane in Class C airspace while in contact with ATC for takeoff and landing?

And I didn't blame the new member. I encouraged her. Coins have an obverse, edge, and reverse.

martymayes
04-03-2017, 08:19 AM
Which operating limitation prohibits operating a properly equipped experimental amateur built airplane in Class C airspace while in contact with ATC for takeoff and landing?

My question as well, what in the operating limitations prevents one from flying into a Class C airport?

Tony, with regard to "congested airways" area and "densely populated areas" one has to use common sense. There are no specific definitions for those terms.

https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/frequently-asked-questions/densely-populated-areas

Dana
04-03-2017, 09:49 AM
You can get new operating limitations issued for your plane without the congested area limitation. I did.

Frank Giger
04-03-2017, 12:46 PM
I have found the magic words to change the direction of a presentation program or even a meeting that has just started:

"I need some help on..."

Usually the next word is "understanding," and then whatever I'm clueless about. All that knowledge and experience just starts getting thrown around pretty quickly...and sometimes winds up with me giving a presentation on the solution the next month.

Really smart people know when they're ignorant, and I can often times be the smartest guy in the room. :)

It all comes down to what a chapter views as as a meeting and a program. If a chapter sees them as mutually exclusive, one gets a meeting, then a program, such as a speaker, followed by a second meeting. All the real stuff happens in side bars and in little circles of folks casually in such environments.

If one has weak small talk skills, this can be daunting, as that's the entryway to side bar learning. It's even harder now that fewer people smoke; many a problem has been solved around a butt can in past days.

Frank "there will be a short break in the briefing to be resumed in twenty minutes" Giger

djenders
04-07-2017, 11:47 AM
A lot of valid observations and points in the thread. Zooming out a bit further, one thing that I struggle with is the goals of the Chapter Office. At the end of the day, they are trying to add and retain chapters. Is the number of chapters a valuable metric of success? I suppose if you want to talk about your growth to the board and publish the number in the mag or on the website.

I would have preferred to see a focus on programming to support the local chapters (I know this has been discussed) and going beyond just the newsletter and Chapter Video Magazine. And as someone else pointed out, this isn't unique to EAA. VFW's, Shriners, etc. Choose a club, they are all looking pretty old and continue to use the same thinking and hoping for different results.

We can blame the member, or we can take a closer look at the goals of HQ and ask if 1,000 chapters is the right metric of success or a younger, more engaged group of individuals.

1600vw
04-08-2017, 04:13 AM
I was told it's not EAA job to support or promote one chapter over another. When the EAA contacted me about this thread and comments made, I stated maybe we should promote one of these chapters and help it come back, so to speak. I received a reply back that it is not the EAA's job to promote one chapter over the other.

Tony

rwanttaja
04-08-2017, 08:53 AM
I was told it's not EAA job to support or promote one chapter over another. When the EAA contacted me about this thread and comments made, I stated maybe we should promote one of these chapters and help it come back, so to speak. I received a reply back that it is not the EAA's job to promote one chapter over the other.
Well...yes. I wouldn't expect EAA national to pour resources into one chapter while denying them to other nearby chapters. I don't see this as a chapter competition issue, but as simple fairness. EAA assists chapters when requested, but if they favor one chapter, the others are going to scream foul. You then get into the issue of how to achieve Most Favored Chapter status.

I belong to two chapters, and could easily attend meetings of two more. I could see some real controversy if EAA national only told potential local members about chapter XXX while ignoring TTT, YYY, and ZZZ.

Ron Wanttaja

Frank Giger
04-08-2017, 10:48 PM
For our merry little band, I can see it merging with another chapter sometime in the future...both have the nuggets to make an effective core of a chapter, but remove just two or three of the right people and...

Gil
04-14-2017, 07:30 AM
Just this week I answered an online survey from EAA about local chapters. I am in the category of having belonged to a local chapter in one area, and moving to a new area and not joining here. Two reasons - there are a lot of politics with some domineering personalities that keep me from being interested, and another, perhaps even bigger reason - I have never been invited to join. I have lived here almost 12 years and work at the airport, so local EAA members are well aware of me being a member of the national organization.

Mayhemxpc
04-17-2017, 08:48 PM
Anyone else notice that Choppergirl started off by throwing the hand grenade and then left us all to our own devices?

Jim Rosenow
04-18-2017, 06:38 AM
Anyone else notice that Choppergirl started off by throwing the hand grenade and then left us all to our own devices?


Hi, Chris....see post #24. :-)

Jim

dvhwd
02-12-2018, 02:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkOMZe0ddhM

If I recall correctly, the EAA charter states EAA is to be an "apolitical" organization.

Inviting people to the meetings who carry guns and threaten others with fines or imprisonment if they do not comply with them, does not strike me as being particularly apolitical.

I dont let my kids attend anything where guns are present; I just read too many stories of guns going off by accident because of incompetence and hurting people. It seems to be in the news all the time, about the police of gun enthusiasts shooting others or themselves by accident.

DaleB
02-12-2018, 02:39 PM
Yeah, those things are almost as dangerous as airplanes.

FlyingTiger17
02-19-2018, 10:11 AM
I am a founding member of my EAA chapter here in North Lake Tahoe/Truckee and we are now in our 22nd year. We are a very active chapter compared to most and we draw members from Reno, Carson City. South Lake Tahoe and Minden. Why do they come? Because from the very beginning I knew we had to have a solid board of directors. They had to the "doers" and not the followers in order to keep the chapter alive and well. We acquired a building on the field that had been abandoned and needed major repairs to make it habitable by going to the airport board of directors and asking for it. It was slated to be torn down for the cost of 25K. We asked them to give us the 25K by paying for needed materials to bring the building back to life and they did. Why did they? Because our chapter members at the time (takes 10 to form a chapter) committed to teaching our local youths the basics of aviation including building. We called the program Operation School Flight. We went to the superintendent of schools and told them what we wanted to do and they agreed to give us a trial run. 5 years later we were teaching up to 20 kids ages 14 to 18 about aviation and 5 earned credits toward graduation. It got to be a bit too much for the handful of EAA "teachers" and we lost some support from a new superintendent so we closed that portion of our activity and were asked to lead a restart of our local airshow which was closed down in 1997 due to burn out from the members and lack of appreciation and support by our airport board. Those were the ugly days but we stayed strong by staying together and working out our problems.

For the past 6 years our EAA chapter has taken the lead in putting on the Truckee Tahoe AirShow & Family Festival along with the Truckee Optimist Club and the KidZone Museum. We are all non profits and the airport pays us to put on the show. Why would they do that? Because they finally saw the light through 3 surveys paid for by the airport asking the locals what they liked and didn't like about the airport in order to learn why they were getting so many noise complaints. Turned out to be a small handful of people literally sitting by their phone and calling in a complaint each and every time an aircraft "disturbed" them for one reason or another. The really strange finding from the survey was that over 95% of a those polled asked "what happened to the airshow" and that they'd like to see it's return. It has been a win win for each of our non profits AND the airport district.

We have a rain, snow or shine pancake breakfast each and every 2nd Saturday of the month (we only cancel with the snows are too deep the morning of the breakfast due to snow removal scheduling). We also have a general membership meeting and "pot luck" dinner the 3rd Wednesday of each month with attendance fairly weak during the winter months and fairly strong in the summer which I believe is normal.

So there you have it. If any of you would like more information just drop me a note to flyingtiger17@gmail.com

Tim LoDolce
President EAA1073 and Executive Director of the Truckee Tahoe AirShow & Family Festival

FlyingTiger17
02-19-2018, 10:17 AM
I agree Danny. It is not only EAA national's policy of staying apolitical but it's our local EAA chapters policy by choice. By staying out of the political problems we stay neutral and respected. It goes a very long way in keeping the chapter strong.


Tim

ssteve1
06-19-2018, 08:03 AM
I joined our local EAA club shortly after completing my VariEze. One of the"head honchos" asked me to fly some young eagles. I told the hh I didn't have insurance. "Oh don't worry about that, the EAA has insurance that will cover you." (Please note the quotes - he said that). Stupidly I flew the young eagles. Two days later, after a lot of thought, I called EAA Headquarters. NO HOW, NO WAY DOES EAA COVER YOUNG EAGLE FLIGHTS. Okay, back to hh. "Hey, EAA doesn't cover young eagle flights." "Oh, well that's too bad". Arghhhhhh! Well, stupid of him but even more stupid of me. A year later I was in the middle of an RV7 project. The local EAA President asked if I would host a meeting at my location and show my project. Of course! So, I hauled and bunch of chairs, hauled a bunch of tables, cleaned the garage and put a program together. Head Honcho, mentioned above, decided to have a hot dog feed instead. The President kind of apologized. At the next experimental AVIATION association meeting, a kite (seriously) program and demonstration was held which effectively closed the airport to AVIATION. I resigned the following day. Back to the topic. I'm not sure how the FAA and local cop shop talks you mentioned relate to AVIATION, but, I will dag gone sure guarantee you, kite (seriously) flying which closes an airport to AVIATION has nothing to do with AVIATION!!!!!

Frank Giger
06-19-2018, 05:04 PM
Wow, we just show up and talk airplanes and stuff at our meetings, usually with a piece or part that has failed or is often installed incorrectly.

dvhwd
08-03-2018, 11:59 PM
Wait, we banned this choppergirl (http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/member.php?u=37217) right, with 1,257 posts (http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/search.php?searchid=4761233&pp=), 1,284 pictures uploads (http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/album.php?u=37217), and 445 likes (http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30213&page=3)?

That's a tough bunch of aviation propeller heads to get that kind of ratio of likes from. Aeronautical engineers and their homebrew ilk are extremely stingy with their likes.

Let's get the ball rolling and ban anyone from the forum who shows up at Oshkosh or an EAA chapter with an old war bird with Russian, German, Chinese, Korean, Italian, or Japanese* insignia on the tail, because well... their political system was (or is) violently hostile and inflammatory to our own and was hell bent at one time (maybe still is) to see our government destroyed. Who's with me on that one?

Whoops.... ban one anarchist for asking a question and expressing her political affiliation, open a can of worms.

*Did I forget British? I do recall them burning Washington at one time... as I understand it they didn't think too kindly or have any respect for our laws or Constitution... as in, let's just torch the place and all your laws with it.

Bye bye Spit's and SE5a's.... MiG's, Sukoi's, Fokker Triplane's, Albatros's, Storch's, BF-109's, FW-190's, and Zero's...

deftone
08-04-2018, 03:23 PM
Wait, we banned this choppergirl (http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/member.php?u=37217) right, with 1,257 posts (http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/search.php?searchid=4761233&pp=), 1,284 pictures uploads (http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/album.php?u=37217), and 445 likes (http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30213&page=3)?

.

Well she posted yesterday so I guess she isnt banned from here......



In response to the thread, I used to love my chapters meetings when I lived in Houston, now I live in Louisiana they only meet at restaurants and at times that dont work for those of us that have regular work schedule. 6.30pm on a Wednesday? How am I meant to get to that???