Flying an aircraft that the Chapter builds

[dwbbrown]

Our chapter EAA1156 recently completed a Pietenpol, a project that took over 12 years. When we tried to obtain insurance for it we were told that Chapters were prohibited from flying an airplane within Chapter/Squadron structure. This is contained in the chapter renewal agreement. The airplane is now grounded until ownership can be changed. This seems to go counter to everything thing the EAA stands for.
I know that legal liabilities are the driving issues here. I think a set of requirements,(insurance,rules) should be developed by EAA that allow chapters to own/fly aircraft. I would like to hear other thoughts about this. David

[Hangar10]

Nice to meet you Mr. Brown! <---The Great Waldo Pepper reference there.

I don't really have any answers or suggestions for you insurance problem, but do you have any photos or information on the Pietenpol? Just wondering which version you guys chose to build. I am currently building the long fuse, 3-piece wing, steel gear with Corvair power. I'd be interested in looking at anything you might want to share.

Thanks!

Mark

[Steve Buss]

Hi David,

Yes, under the current chapter structure, flying an airplane is not an approved chapter activity.

That said, there has been work started on exploring the possibility of creating flying clubs or parameters to allow a chapter to fly an airplane.

While the work is underway, it is not something that will be ready in the near future. We have a long way to go. The desire to fly an airplane under a chapter banner is something that we have heard from chapters through surveys and feedback at our Chapter Leaders Academy sessions.

Thanks,
Steve

Steve Buss
EAA Chapter Manager

[Anymouse]

David,

Is it possible to simply create a flying club, separate from the chapter itself, that all chapter members are automatically members of? It's a Tomato/Tomata thing, but it might get around the rules of current chapter structure while keeping the spirit of the chapter.

[flyingrcarlson]

Our chapter has been wanting to find a way around this as well.

[smutny]

This could be a great promoter for IAC chapters. The biggest hurdle for many pilots to start aerobatics is access to an airplane. Having to buy a $50,000+ Citabria or Decathlon just to see if you like it is a show stopper for many, many people. Chapter managed aircraft could be a solution.

[gcardinal]

Members of EAA Chapter 25 in Minneapolis have approached this restriction by having a group of members financing the construction of a Pietenpol. The parent chapter has no ownership of the aircraft. We have weekly build sessions and invite / encourage ALL of the chapter members to attend and learn how to build an aircraft. We are fortunate to have a lot of Pietenpol experience within the chapter.
This doesn't give everyone in the chapter the privilage to fly the finished airplane but it does allow everyone to get involved with the build process at some level.

Greg Cardinal

[dbcrn]

Have someone in the chapter start a flying club, then donate the plane to the club.
Make it a stipulation that the plane cannot be sold, and ownership of the plane reverts back to the chapter if the club becomes insolvent. Make another stipulation that all club members must also be chapter members.
Works for our chapter.

[dwbbrown]

Our intention is to investigate forming an LLC partnership and donate the aircraft to that partnership. Here is an excerpt from the e-mail that was sent to us.

"As per our discussion now that the plane is completed it will need to be moved to a separate corporation or sold. If you are moving it to a separate corporation it will need to be set up with its own corporation with a name that does not link back to the chapter or EAA, as well as its own board of directors, membership and treasury. There is an EAA Legal Advisory Council that can help get you pointed in the right direction in terms of what would be the appropriate type of incorporation to use, steps to get started, etc. When contacting them just let them know you are with an EAA Chapter and looking for their assistance."

When I called the legal council, I was told it was a matter of state law and he couldn't help. David

[Anymouse]

Our intention is to investigate forming an LLC partnership and donate the aircraft to that partnership. Here is an excerpt from the e-mail that was sent to us.

"As per our discussion now that the plane is completed it will need to be moved to a separate corporation or sold. If you are moving it to a separate corporation it will need to be set up with its own corporation with a name that does not link back to the chapter or EAA, as well as its own board of directors, membership and treasury. There is an EAA Legal Advisory Council that can help get you pointed in the right direction in terms of what would be the appropriate type of incorporation to use, steps to get started, etc. When contacting them just let them know you are with an EAA Chapter and looking for their assistance."

This sounds pretty close to what I was suggesting.

[MADean]

A few members from chapter 1177 (Palmyra, WI) have recently decided to build a Double Eagle as a sort of "unofficial" chapter project. Something to do, that won't cost an arm & a leg to build. And when done, we'll have an plane we can fly, affordably, just for the fun of it. We've invited any chapter member who wants to join in to do so. We're financing it ourselves, so the chapter will never own it, and we'll form a club somewhere during the build. (Probably sooner than later.) For now, it's something we hope will build some interest, for both existing and new members, in the chapter. Already we have 5 members - including two new ones - who have "bought" into the project. (They've even invested cash money.)

[pdecraene]

Our Chapter, 95 Morris IL, has just recieved the first kit for a Van's RV-12. We will be building the airplane as a flying/building club which will be an LLC and seperate from our Chapter. We are limiting shares in the LLC to 10 at this time. The biggest issue with the flying club structure seems to be insurance, this is where EAA can hopfully help us in the future.

[hopmedic]

This thread goes directly to an idea that came up at our chapter meeting the other day, where we formed an exploratory committee.. I'm on that committee, so any suggestions on how to get started with what it takes to form such a flying club, or a rough idea how long before chapters may be able to fly under existing framework would be greatly appreciated.