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Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:14 AM
I figured I'd mirror the build thread for my 7/8th scale WWI replica Nieuport 11 over here, as it's good to have a lot of eyes on what I'm doing to point out my errors.

Backing up to 2 August 2011, when I went up to Airdrome Aeroplanes' headquarters in Holden, MO for three and a half days of builder's assist...
For those wondering about the House of Pain's builder's assist, here's my experience. In some places, it can be a soft way of doing a lot of work for a customer and stage some photos for the FAA man. Not so at the Airdrome; in fact, it is referred to as the House of Pain by those who have signed up for it.

They truly just assist, and the amount of work done on the aircraft is really dependant on how hard the dude that showed up is willing to get on it. It's more a School of Aircraft Design and Construction, hands on and get dirty.

The plane is aluminum tube and gusset; it's very light and very strong with almost no welded parts. It'll be fabric covered. The kit has all the gussets pre-cut (but not pre-drilled) and the tubes are all slightly oversized and have to be trimmed and shaped.

So this is what one starts with:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu001.jpg

This is Jim, the full time employee of AA. He's 74 years old and knows EVERYTHING construction and mechanics. He also works like a maniac and does NOT stop to pose for pictures. He's sorting thru some of the fuselage parts here. In the back is Robert Baslee, designer, builder, owner and operator...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu003.jpg

Typical Frank drawing of the template. Note little "GOOD" notations where I finally got it right. The plans are on the little sheet and are drawn up full size.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu007.jpg

Once the longerons are bent and put down (the bottom of the Nieuport has that curve), it's a matter of cutting a semicircle on the ends of the spar join-y bits, putting them in place, drilling holes in the gussets, and popping rivets in. One starts from the front of the aircraft:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu008.jpg

Here's a closeup of gussets. Note the lack of fancy tools. Those blue things are air powered rivet guns. The rest is battery drills, a drill press in the other room, a bending brake, and a belt sander to deburr tubes. Holes are typically not de-burred as it's not necessary and just slows things down. Every tube and gusset plane in the WWI community has built in turn and bank rattle gauges installed. They also prevent corrosion inside the tubes ( :P )

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu009.jpg

Lower down little circles are used:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu010.jpg

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:16 AM
These are used to hold down the side supports and gussets lock down the end:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu018.jpg

Note my "smiley face" lines in riveting. Three days later I actually riveted a straight line that was evenly spaced on a gusset. We were all shocked.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu019.jpg

When one side is done it's flipped over and zip ties are brought out.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu020.jpg

The big thing isn't exact dimensions - it's a homebuilt, not a production aircraft - but they've got to fit each other as mirrors and be identical so the fuselage will be square in all axis:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu022.jpg

Then one gets to start making it a box! Some clamps hold it together, and wire is strung at the very front and a quarter of the way down and tightened to where it comes up square.

Then it's tacked down:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu025.jpg

This ended day one. It was 110 degrees without the heat index crap figured in.

Day two - 3 August - started with checking square and putting in top and bottom supports.

Note the delicate tool to gently adjust sides, namely the ball peen hammer laying there (the handle was used as a lever).

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu037.jpg

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:18 AM
For most of the day we fussed and fixed, working our way down and being careful before locking things down. Fuselage structure done.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu038.jpg

Checking true was done by putting a level up on the front of the fuselage, putting a tube as an extension on the tail, and seeing if they lined up.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu035.jpg

The guy on the phone back there is Robert Baslee, showing how he can handle questions from other builders, orders for supplies, inquiries, etc., and still manages to keep one engaged and involved. I never felt like he was ignoring me or the plane's progress.

There is no way I would have gotten the fuselage true! What isn't shown is a lot of adjustment of tubes, often by taking them out and shortening and lengthening them. Also I didn't show all the cross tubes and gussets, since they all start to look the same after awhile.

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:21 AM
With the first half of day two devoted to squaring that fuselage, we turned to the tail feathers!

Here's the horizontal stabilizer and elevator in the foreground and the rudder in the background (some assembly required)

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz001.jpg

I had put together a rudder at home using a very convoluted, overdone jig - and wasn't satisfied with the result. Note the electrical tape outline, the couple of blocks, and one of the two circles used to bend around used by Robert and I to whip a completely awesome one in about two hours:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz002.jpg

Onto the horizontal stabilizer and elevator! First I muck up the drawing by "helping" Jim with the math and measurements, but then we sort it out and get to it.

HUGE lessons on building with this! I would have totally stressed the bends on the inside and outside of the elevator (in the foreground), spending a lot of time figuring out the perfect radius for each.

"C'mon, Frank, here's the tangent line here and here. Find something that makes the circle that fits and looks good and just bend around it," Robert says.

So I used that little circle for the rudder bend on the outside and a wire spool for the big one inside.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz003.jpg

Next lesson was on annealing aluminum. Jim showed me this great technique of putting a sharpie pen mark where the temper has to be taken out and heating it until the mark disappeared (but no more). Then it's soft enough to pound flat and bend without cracking the metal!
Note the erroneous center line drawing and the rounded edges on metal. They're both my work! Snips and belt sander made it nice and roundish on the ends. The tube actually fuzed on the end in the pounding process (ball peen hammer).

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz004.jpg

The outline of the horizontal stabilizer is laid out and really nice "fish mouth" joints put on the end - Jim once again played school master and showed me how to make them look professional and un-ugly when they get covered.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz010.jpg

Time to put in those braces! Some work required, as they're the flat pieces of metal laying there.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz012.jpg[/

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:24 AM
Jim and I started a kind of race on making them after we drilled the holes that would marry up to the tubes on the bending brakes. It was 108 degrees on the thermometer (goodness knows what it was with humidity) but the swamp cooler fan thing really helped out - otherwise that old man would have smoked me like a cheap cigar.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz013.jpg

He grabbed the camera and asked if I was wilting.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz014.jpg

Me, hot?

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz015.jpg

Naw, I'm making plane!


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz016.jpg
Meanwhile, Robert had gotten a jump on the gear:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gr002.jpg

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:25 AM
Jim was fussing over my poor rivet job (and fixing a few pulled ones), so I shifted over to stand at the shoulder of another master:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gr003.jpg

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gr004.jpg

To be honest I did more watching and holding!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gr005.jpg

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gr006.jpg

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gr007.jpg

This is where Jim said "It's late, I'm hot, and I'm going home." I don't blame him, it was 1700.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gr008.jpg

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:27 AM
Well, being the HOP, watching and lending a hand wouldn't last long! I filed down the channels so the axel moved freely in its slot.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gr009.jpg

Learned how to wire and tighten bungees (and tightened them too much)

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gr010.jpg

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gr011.jpg

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gr012.jpg

In case you're wondering, these parts are called "Wheels."

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gr013.jpg

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gr014.jpg

That ended the day. Whew! Man, was I dirty and stinky!

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:28 AM
Day three was really a half day for building - we had to mount and level the horizontal stabilizer, as though we had done a lot of squaring, we wound up a little low on the left side (less than a quarter of an inch). This is actually expected; it's rare to get it right on the money and is why the horizontal stabilizer is mounted to the fuselage on little plastic spacers.

Lens had condensation from taking it out of the AC cool truck and into the 87 degree shop (at 0800):

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz017.jpg

"Is it centered?"
"I don't think it's centered."
"Let's check it again...."
"Okay, looks good, let's put in those last two tubes and lock them down!"

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz018.jpg

Spacers and level - note they now get labeled, which is overkill. The right and rear are the standard length (and are interchangeable) and only the left is trimmed a bit.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz020.jpg

"Is it level enough?"
"Looks level enough to me."
"It don't get much more level than that, young man," Jim says.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz021.jpg

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz022.jpg

"Uh, Jim, that left gusset for the stabilizer is further back than the right."
"How the hell did we do that?"
"I dunno, how do we fix it?"
"Drill it out, move it forward, put rivets in the hole."
"Both of them?"
"Measure to the one in the center in the gusset and don't miss it."
Amazingly, I didn't!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hz023.jpg

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:31 AM
Meanwhile, Robert was putting together the tailwheel assembly and painting it...

Jim and I put in the support gussets and tube to hold the tailwheel and shock absorbing bungie...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tw001.jpg

Bolt on and bungie...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tw002.jpg

Tada! One steerable tailwheel installed!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tw004.jpg

This carried us to around 1500 hours - fuselage structure done, on gear and tailwheel with tailfeathers finished. Robert said we were ahead of schedule and had some good ideas on how to make things really, really easier and time saved later on.

Time to bend some wing ribs!

They have this torture machine that consists of a couple pieces of wood shaped to the airfoil of the various models of planes. One person has to bend the ribs, and should do them all at the same time. The reason is that even though it's one solid shape, the aluminum will bend and shape based on how force is applied as much as anything else, and consistency is far more important than the precise shape of the curve. Here's me bending a top rib:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rb001.jpg

A reference line is made with the sharpie (held in my mouth), and the rib is walked down the jig.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rb002.jpg

One holds it for five seconds on the bottom so it will "remember" the bend.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rb003.jpg

Jim took pictures because I asked him to for the FAA man and my builder's log and because he both thought it was funny to watch me strain (the tubing is stiff) and felt like he wasn't helping.

Now take those three pictures and repeat 61 more times.

Day four doesn't have pictures, as it was spent "coping" the ribs, which means cutting them to fit to the main spar of the wings - one uses the reference lines to ensure they're all cut at the same spot to ensure the airfoil is even along the wing.

Robert has an adjustable jig and the technique down and it still took us all the way to lunch to get them all cut. I sure did come away with a great feeling knowing my ribs are now going to all match and fit to the wings (top and bottom). Robert got called away on some business, so Jim had a great idea on the last thing to do.

"Young man, go get your engine mount."
"Okay."
"It's got to be drilled at an angle on the top to fit and be square to the firewall, and you only get one shot to get it right."
"Oh."
"I think we should do that right now, since I have done a bunch of them."

Dang right we should! Jim really shined on how he looked, measured, looked, eyeballed, and then drilled that sucker dead on. He's right, the angle one has to cut on the top of the engine mount is one of finesse. It slopes back to front on the top and has to match up with the bottom bolts which are straight through the mount.

We did some paperwork (bill of sale and this humongerous waiver of liability) and I nearly hugged Jim as we said goodbye.

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:35 AM
7 August 2011:

Here's a pic of the plane in carry home configuration:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/HOP_truck.jpg

I took the picture at Liberty Landing, where the KC Dawn Patrol guys really put out the red carpet for me! Loads of answers and a chance to chase one of the Nieuports around in a Champ!

I took the rudder off before heading down the highway for eleven hours. Fuel tank, cowl, sheet metal, etc., were in the back of the truck. The elevator was in the bed of the truck.

How hot was it? Well, the Airdrome Aeroplanes cat was walking around with his tongue hanging out:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/AA_cat.jpg

I felt much more confident driving from near St. Louis back to Birmingham about the prospects of building an airplane - it had been a crash course that covered everything needed for the structure, with only covering, mechanics, and electrical to learn.

:)

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:40 AM
17 August:
Bought the beech plywood for the bottom of the plane/fuselage - real thin stuff that will do fine and look pretty good when sanded and sealed.

I was returning from the Aviation Section of Lowe's when I spotted the big box from Walmart had been delivered - a huge carport canopy that will be a godsend in the project. I'm working in the back yard and without shade. I don't mind the heat, but the tools were getting so hot that a stupid box end wrench actually burned my hand!

So I spent yesterday afternoon putting it up, tying it down, and hanging tarp sides. It's placed where it won't be in the wind, but that didn't stop me from securing it against hurricanes.

22 August:

Based on feedback from the rain yesterday, I put in a longer tarp on the side facing the yard that goes the length of the canopy and rigged up a rain gutter on the house side of it using another tarp today. Now no water will get on the patio or close to my plane (hopefully). I haven't been drinking enough water and had to give it up at that point - the sweat was running down me to where even my pants were soaked!

Went out just before dark and painted the support struts for the horizontal stabilizer in what looks close enough to Horizon Blue for my likes. I left off the part where I had labeled which goes where; I'll remark and paint that bit tomorrow. I probably could tell by length but I'm a bit paranoid to not give myself a way to know for sure.

I found a pulled rivet and replaced it as well as bent back the gussets on the fuselage so they won't show when covered.

I'm going to have to buy a crimping tool for cables, some safety wire, and a safety wire tool. In order to paint the gear I'll have to remove the bungees and axel. Then it's back to the fuselage floor and carry throughs....

25 August:

Rough cut and bent the plywood for the fuselage bottom - waiting for it to dry and hold the curve before sanding and final fit (and then sealing).

In the interest of weight I've decided not to put a floor in on the inside. The floor pans and carry throughs will be enough for my feet, and I want to avoid the problems of putting too much weight on the plane by means of small amounts.

Re-did the horizontal stabilizer struts where the paint "crinkled."

Going to have to wait until I remove the floor to finish painting the fuselage tubing.....

When I say I'm building this in my backyard, I ain't kidding!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/floor01.jpg

Wet the whole mess down until it was soaked and fit to the fuselage:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/floor02.jpg

And clamped.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/floor03.jpg

Originally I thought of a bothersome sort of mold for the fuselage bend, but then better sense took hold. I'll secure it to the fuselage with some conduit bends, washers, and good aviation nuts and bolts.

Note my take on Horizon Blue, which turns out matches "Periwinkle" out of a Krylon can. :p The blue tarps make it look darker than it really is.

And wow, there ain't much paint in a can - ran out, as one can see. Went back over some of it and it looks loads better, and without any signs of runs or crappy areas.

That's the inside of the Wonder Canopy. The tarp to the right that looks all wadded up and crappy is actually a rain gutter that works amazingly well. Two box fans keep the air circulating. The other side of the tarps on the left are silvered - it's actually no hotter inside than outside of the tent.

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:45 AM
25 August:

Flooring looked pretty good when I checked on it this evening. Tomorrow I'll pull it off and start sanding for prep on sealing. The only concern is what happens when I spill fuel over the tank - I'm going to prep a square from the extra on the board and see what mogas does to it.

In case you're wondering, I'll cover up to the side plating and then put the wood over it. I'm going to sand a bevel at the edges of the wood so it will blend into the covering and the sides. I also made the front cutouts for the gear large enough so that I can inspect the bolts from the outside.

I also figured out how I'm going to get the carry-throughs right. Once I get the measurements from the top longeron I'm going to cut some styrofoam blocks to fit underneath them and put a clamp above them so they won't move.

I'm ordering some safety wire and a tool tonight. The bungees have to come off of the gear so I can remove it for painting the gear legs, and when they go back on they've got to be wired back.

30 August:

Sanded the flooring for eurathane sealing tomorrow - amazing what a little work can do to really improve the appearance of a thing!

Fabricated my first solo gusset - the S bent one for the rear of the turtle deck. Fortunately the piece given to make it from was more than twice as long. My HF bending brake wound up breaking rather than bending the first one!

I figured out that I need to bend to 45 degrees and then move the piece an eighth of an inch and bend again on thin stuff. The bend looks crisp that way and doesn't break it.

My el cheapo HF belt sander (fifty bucks!) worked like a champ. I rounded the corners in no time flat and got rid of burring on the cut lines I had in a flash.

I need to write my questions down when I call Robert, as I can't remember any list longer than three items!

I was in the aircraft section of Lowe's and picked up the conduit fasteners for the fuselage floor. They're steel and my Spidey Sense started tingling....steel on aluminum. Dissimilar metals.

I haven't sat in an inorganic chemistry class in a very long time, and I can't remember if iron and aluminum share electons, so to be on the safe side I got a can of that spray on rubber stuff. I figure two coats of it on the steel will insulate them from each other.

I found an 18" swaging tool at Lowes for fifty bucks! It's adjustable and fit my budget just fine.

2 September:
So I whupped the dissimilar metals (probably overstated) problem for the flooring issue.

First, I finished up painting the cockpit area of the fuselage and started down the gear legs:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu_pnt01.JPG

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu_pnt02.JPG

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu_pnt03.JPG

I'm going to remove the gear and bungees for painting the bottom of the gear legs, now that my safety wire kit has arrived.
So that's the first layer - regular ol' Krylon. Thank goodness they make it in Horizon Blue. :p

The second layer is spray on adhesive rubber:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu_clp01.jpg

I'll paint the tops in the Krylon Horizon Blue to match the cockpit tubing.

Here's the flooring ready for the polyurathane:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/flr_b4.jpg

The instructions say it should be below 80 degrees when applied, and it was well over 90, so I deferred working on the wood.
It might seem like a lot of window dressing when the plane needs built, but there's a method to my madness. Once I put the lower wing carry throughs, control column, rudder pedals and seat it will be nearly impossible to paint those areas. Ironically, I can only do the front third and the very rear flooring attachments as I don't know what will be inaccessable for removal.

The back quarter of the wood will actually be over fabric covering. I'll do it this way as it is actually easier to wrap the fuselage than to have a bunch of cut out panels.

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:47 AM
4 September:

My resident Polyurathane Technical Advisor held court inside the Grand Canopy, overseeing my efforts on the wooden flooring.
My wife may be completely disinterested with the metal parts of the plane, but she was keen to ensure the wooden part was done right.

Maybe I should have built an Albatross!

I did the upper part (inside the fuselage) first, as it won't be seen by anyone but myself and any goof ups won't be noticed. I thought it would be simplicity itself - just brush the stuff on and then let it dry. Oh no, it's not done like that. With extreme patience she guided me in the correct amount to put on the brush, how to go with the grain, feathering each stroke with the previous, and that it's a gentle brush to, down, and up from the wood, letting it draw the stuff off of the brush rather than painting it on. And don't go over what you've already done with anything less than a completely wet brush.

As I always do when I am clearly completely ignorant of a task and the person teaching knows how to do it well, I simply followed the instructions without question.

Eventually she explained that A) If one doesn't go with the grain it won't apply evenly and one will get streaks along the grain, B) it will look like crap and the brush marks will show if you go the other way, C) one will have to sand so much to get it smooth that one might as well just do it all over again if it's not done the way she said.

Oh, and throw away any brush used with polyurathane. No matter how much one tries to clean it at some point the next time it will start mucking up, forcing one to throw it down with disgust and get a fresh one anyway.

So says Her Voice of Experience.

Anyhow, it might seem like a non-event, but it was kind of fun to have the wife hanging out with me in the unseasonably cool weather.

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:50 AM
7 September

Okay, first off, here's a pic of the floor bottom:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/flr_af.JPG

It really doesn't do it justice - darned thing looks like a bowling alley! The waves come right out when it's pulled into the bow fully, too!

And here is where I learn an invaluable lesson about shortcuts!

Got to work on the lower wing carry throughs and ran into a HUGE problem. The front right vertical spars were too close together. Don't know how we missed it, but the carry through wouldn't fit in it, and it also has to have a tang in there as well for the flying wires!

Completely my fault - the vertical spar wasn't full flush with the bottom longeron, which is why it didn't match the other side.

All I need is a quarter inch more. The issue is that one does NOT put holes into the longerons unless it is ABSOLUTELY required. So pulling the gusset out, moving it, and drilling more holes is not an option. Likewise, one can't just drill a bunch of holes in the vertical tube.
I came up with a rather elegant solution, if I must say so. My inclination was to make a new gusset and drill holes using the old as a template, but then I had a lightbulb moment.

First I used an Aircraft Gusset Trimming Machine (known to some as a hack saw) to trim down the gusset to the rear, filing off the rough edges with a hand file. Then I drilled out the rivets to the vertical spar:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cryth001.JPG

Now, then, how to know exactly where to drill the new holes into the gusset? Because the top is firmly in place by two other spars, the top longeron, and a beefy gusset, it's a bend on a radius. Just moving over to the right is going to miss!

Wait a second, it's a tube, and there's a back side. What if I drilled all the way through....

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cryth002.JPG

...used a board to hold the tube in the right spot and be uniform with its twin on the other side....

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cryth003.JPG

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cryth004.JPG

...and drilled through the two holes through the gusset?

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cryth005.JPG

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:54 AM
Rivets through all the holes to keep strength on the back side....

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cryth006.JPG

...and of course the ones on the front.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cryth007.JPG

Trim the gusset, file, and....

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cryth008.JPG

Tada!

I have just placed myself in mortal danger! Hurray! This is a MAJOR spot of stress on the airframe - not only is it where the lower wing carry through is mounted, it also hosts the point where the flying wires run to the upper wing. The good folks at the Aerodrome forums were quick to jump on me for this, to which I am eternally grateful.

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 12:56 AM
9 September:
El crapo gusset removed and put down as a template on a spare:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cryth009.jpg

Drilled, trimmed, deburred and installed:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cryth0010.jpg

On to something I didn't screw up:

First, my handy dandy double bent and shaped gusset for the back of the turtle deck:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt001.jpg

Installed without breaking anything:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt002.jpg

And yes, it's straight....

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:00 AM
14 September:

I felt well enough today to put in the front securing bolts to the flooring - it worked out much better than anticipated, to be honest. I'm on the back side of this killer cold, but know better than over exend myself.

Heck, I'll have to look closely at myself first thing in the morning and decide whether or not to scrub the scheduled hour in the Champ; I'll be playing the hydration game this evening to regain full composure.

Anyhow, I had initially thought to go through the big gussets on the front sides, but then imagined a string of "oh noes, you've drilled your doom!" responses.

Turns out it's not necessary - the flooring is more than secure without needing to.

The washers on the bottom are going to have to be painted in a different color - it matched okay before the spar stuff was put on it, but now is too light and stands out more than I want it to. I won't worry about the lock nuts on the top, as nobody will see them.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/flr_m001.jpg

From underneath:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/flr_m002.jpg

I'm going to find a better color match for the washers and bolts underneath. Put the side panels on to see how it will look and it blends in with them pretty darned good, which is a relief. It would suck to go through all the trouble and find it sticks out unmentionably over them.

I'm pretty much decided to go with the V twin engine for a couple of reasons, and so the extra weight of the flooring is actually a good thing. It's only a couple of pounds spread from the firewall through to the CG, but I'll need it to keep from being tail heavy (the V twin is lighter than a VW).

On to the turtle deck! The front bit behind the fuselage starts out as a square piece of aluminum - and in this case was a tad too long. Time to do some measuring and drawing!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt003.jpg

First a rough cut with the tin snips, then fine tune with the sander - here's the right side done and the left ready to get back to work. When bringing the metal down I had to go pretty slow, pausing repeatedly to keep the aluminum from heating too much; I don't know if it would get hot enough to temper it, but didn't want to take the chance.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt004.jpg

Here's it done and reversed, as my ugly Sharpie marks make it look un-curvy in the pics.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt005.jpg[/

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:02 AM
The bottom of the piece gets a 90 degree bend to rivet to the fuselage. Now I could have back ordered the 40 inch bending brake a few months ago and had it handy, but I didn't. There is, however, a different technique.

First lock the piece down to the handy-dandy super cluttered work table I made using the metal ruler and some C clamps.

Second take a rubber mallet and gently whack away at it until the bend takes hold, moving the clamp inwards.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt006.jpg

Pretty close!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt007.jpg

Now rotate the piece, locking it down with the flange-y bit skyward and gingerly whack on it until the 90 degrees is made.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt008.jpg

Check with straight edge - closer enough.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt009.jpg

Here's how it looks on the fuselage.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt0010.jpg

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt0011.jpg

Tomorrow I'll make the "frill" that goes around the top for the tubes that attach from front to back to rivet to. That ought to be quite the adventure.

Oh, and since this piece has a twin that goes on the front of the fuselage, I traced out the arc and will put that one together tomorrow as well.

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:04 AM
22 September:
All fixed!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu040.jpg

and cleaned up the gusset and replaced the rear tube as well:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu041.jpg

It went as well as I could have hoped, and Mr. Drillpress was so very happy to be taken out of the back of the shed and given an opporutunity to be Really Reliable for the fishmouthing hole to mirror the fit.

A couple of double checks:

1) rivet distance from edge on FG8 gusset within tolerance of other gussets in similar places; I'm not worried about it. The line of stress is straight and not crossed by the curve shown.

2) Miraculously, the carry through is not only square to the longeron, but equal distance from the nose of the plane - station zero - when against the rear of of the space as shown.

I'll cut the sheet of aluminum I got today for the flanges for the turtledeck tomorrow...

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:07 AM
23 September:
My down and dirty one hour turtle deck.

First, I used the crimping pliers.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt012.jpg

Incredibly, it fit like a glove! Put on the big aluminum piece, trimmed, and mounted to the fuselage:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt014.jpg

Then start from the center rear:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt015.jpg

then the front:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt016.jpg

Now, then, there are five stringers: one in the center, one on each edge, and then one between those. One could use a measuring tape and math, but that hurts my head - fractions are not my long suit.

This is where having a messy work area comes in handy. My technique is to take some scrap paper or thin cardboard, mark both ends, fold it in half, mark the fold, and carry on.

Here I'm measuring where to put stringers two and three on the inside:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt017.jpg

And measuring how long the tubes should be is by the Sharpie Method:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt018.jpg

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:09 AM
Rinse and repeat until they're all done. Sort of scared me, as it only took about an hour, including cutting the flange gusset from stock, bending and crimping it. And ten minutes looking for my Sharpie (yep, in my pocket the whole time).

To make the turtle deck gussets, once again I relied on CLA* materials. In this case, a foam project board that was used as a BB Gun target and a back splash for some painting project or other.

I cut a rectangle of it, put it long ways and measured how high each tube was from the two crossmembers where I wanted them, then cut them down into a step pyramid shape to ensure I was on:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt020.jpg

Then it was a matter of cutting circles in some of the beech plywood I used for the flooring:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt022.JPG

Cut in some V notch stakes to ensure they fit:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt023.jpg

In this case I cut a little shallow so they'd sort of snap in place.

Draw some very accurate lines between the notches:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/turt026.jpg

Cut with a jigsaw along the lines, sand, and secure on the tubing with some nylon covered clamp thingies using 1/4" inch bolts, washers, and locking nuts.

A few notes:
CRA = Crap Laying Around. Never underestimate its value.

Turns out that the technique used here is a case of independant discovery. The KC Dawn Patrol guys did the exact same thing on turtle deck supports when they re-did their Nieuports back in '93.

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:11 AM
Last fooling around with the stupid turtle deck.

I placed a plywood section placed inside the front metal gusset with cutouts for the tubing. Really weird that I got the cut right the first time; it fit snugly and is firmly in place. Bent down the flange (like one does for gussets on the fuselage) a little as well.

Test of strength was simple - I sat on the top of it as if I was hanging out on the ramp trying to look cool. Not a wiggle.

The back two support gussets got a relook as well. The long tubes weren't laying naturally, having a sort of hump and sag to them; their lines weren't running straight. Fortunately it was a case of too much wood, and a little trimming here and there got them running true.

I also went from a sort of arch across the gusset to a slight concave smile from tube to tube to ensure they won't show when covered.

An old table cloth went over the turtle deck and was tightened down for a line check. Tubing runs straight and true and it looks a helluvalot better. Impossible to tell where the gussets are with the cover and they are supporting the tubes rock solid.

Done. Any attempt to improve on it will most likely mean disaster, so I'm putting a big check mark by it and moving on.

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:14 AM
(Lots of little stuff done that doesn't much matter, mostly QC of work)

13 October:
Finally got a day off* and so started to tackle the cabanes.

First, a nice clean workspace:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab001.jpg

The gear legs are fishmouthed to match the longeron, so....

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab004.jpg

I fired up the sander and did the same with the cabane strut:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab005.jpg

Test fit:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab002.jpg

Holy smokes, it's square!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab003.jpg

Establishing the precise location of the gusset:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab006.jpg

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:15 AM
And, like always, I realized that I needed a better way of marking to be sure!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab007.jpg

One of my problems with the plans is that the measurements are from securing bolt to securing bolt, so I came up with a solution.

First, mark from bolt line to bolt line:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab008.jpg

Then remove the gusset and mark where the cabane strut ends.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab009.jpg

They're even on both ends, so just replicate that.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab010.jpg

Mark the strut for length:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab011.jpg

Use the super special manual aluminum separation securing jig and cut to length.

Note the super special manual aluminum separation tool next to the 'lectric drill.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab012.jpg

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:16 AM
Check measurements - okay! Mark length on the other strut to make sure they're even:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab013.jpg

Make a "don't exceed" fishmouth line on the second tube:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab014.jpg

Pretty much on the numbers!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab016.jpg

Big test:

They're all the same length and the fishmouths match up with the longeron okay. To ensure I'm not katywhompus, I stood them up by themselves and they balance 90 and 90 degrees on all four ends.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab015.jpg

Measure and drill the rivet holes on all eight gussets. The cable and longeron bolts won't be pre-drilled, as they have to match both sides exactly:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab018.jpg

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:17 AM
So much for a clean workspace! :D

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab017.jpg

I was just realizing that I have lost the eight eye ended bolts for the cable (the package compartment for them is open, and no doubt they're somewhere in the environs of my truck, the house, the shed, the garage, etc.) and took a break to visit Aircraft Spruce. Little suckers are expensive!

* And then my boss calls to say two people called in sick and would I like an overtime opportunity? Well, yeah, I gotta pay for those bolts somehow...but since I work the night shift, I need to move up nappy time.

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:19 AM
Here's the Expert Jigs for the front cabanes:

First, line up the strut and the gusset to the marks and put down a 2x4 piece of scrap at the end of it, screwing it into the work table.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab019.jpg

Put down a piece of scrap on the other end, and it's done for one side of the cabanes!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab020.jpg

Little dots help to keep me straight as I made holes and riveted!

Put one side in, turn it end for end, do the other end on the same side.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab021.jpg

On the other sides, I just replaced the little piece of scrap with a 2x4 stub at the end of the gusset line, drilled and riveted.
Check of completed pieces:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab022.jpg

And, through the magic of time delay, they're suddenly painted!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab025.jpg

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:20 AM
16 October:
Rear cabane gets started.

The first is just like the fronts - tubes are fishmouthed for fit onto the longeron for square.

I must say I was rather pleased with myself. They're standing balanced on these sleeves around the longeron that rotate freely.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab023.jpg

Bending the first of the rear gusset fourteen degrees....

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab024.jpg

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:22 AM
19 October:

Got some work done on the airplane!
First, time to bend up the other gusset:
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab026.jpg
Then came measure and draw. I'll spare the pics of drawing stuff out - everyone knows how to do that!
What I needed, though, was something to stand in for the longerons. The plans say to "match fuselage" which makes sense, but I was at first lost on how to translate that to a jig.
My solution:
Measure fuselage from center to center (easy to do, just make a mark on top of the longeron and measure from point to point).
Find something the same diameter. Turns out my crappy, falling apart wooden broom has a handle that matches. Woot! It's a little shorter now.
Measure and draw ends, make a box, split the middle upwards for where the gusset goes.
Put a block on the top where the gusset stops (once again there's a "bolt line" for height, so it's one inch higher than that).
Put the broom handle sections on the corner, ensuring they center on the crosshairs.
Simple, huh?
Anyhow, then I rough measured how much to take off the spars, giving myself a little extra, trimmed them, and ran out of daylight!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab027.jpg

Tonight I'm gonna double check my angles for rivets on the gusset where it holds into the spars.

Tomorrow I'll lock down the jig with some 2x4's, drill and rivet.

Then paint and put the cabanes on!

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:23 AM
(Yesterday)
Got some work in today - talk about an emotional rollercoaster!

First, a quick check of the jig - measured the angle of one strut -

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab028.jpg

And was really pleased to see the other matched.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab029.jpg

Locked everything down in place:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab030.jpg

Including the top gusset!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab031.jpg

This sort of professionalism and exactness isn't often seen, I know, but hey, somebody's gotta set standards around here.

I ran into a conflict between plans and reality. The plans for the gusset use the full scale N17 measurements (my gusset is smaller than the 1:1 picture provided), so the angles didn't quite match up. I figured as long as it hits the center at the right height and they match in angle and it's close it would be okay.

Lots of drawing on the gusset before I just said to heck with it and locked the sucker down.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab032.jpg

Flipped it over and did the other side.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab033.jpg

Frank Giger
10-21-2011, 01:25 AM
Take a deep breath and set it on the fuselage.

Do they hit the marks on the longeron? Yes!

Is it level....take a deep breath:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab034.jpg

YES! Woohoo! But wait..

It it centered....

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab035.jpg

Dead on the friggin' money.

I'm pretty jazzed and rivet in the bottom gussets no problem. Hey, I'm a pro at them now!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab036.jpg

Rush up the the airplane and put it on for a final test fit. By now the work area is a mess of air hoses, extension cords, blocks of wood, filings, and rivet nails. I bump the fuselage and laugh.

Until I see the darned thing is off level.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab037.jpg

Many, many bad words. It doesn't make sense.

Then I see one of my fuselage leveling blocks got pushed out when I bumped it. Before I start finding a dog to kick, lemme check something....

I start to laugh - the fuselage is off level.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab038.jpg

And it's off level precisely the same amount as the rear cabane.

(cut and paste top over bottom)

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab039.jpg

So all's right with the world again, and as the sun is setting it's time to go inside.

So this is how far I am in the building process - too much, or should I keep adding to this as I go on through the process?

Matt Gonitzke
10-21-2011, 04:53 AM
Well I don't know about anybody else, but I like pictures...keep 'em coming!:D

Hiperbiper
10-21-2011, 07:54 AM
Well I don't know about anybody else, but I like pictures...keep 'em coming!:D

+1000

Chris

Chad Jensen
10-21-2011, 02:17 PM
Really glad you decided to post these here Frank! I think a lot of folks will get some great enjoyment out of watching your N11 go together, and as I mentioned in the past...it certainly has my attention!! :cool:

Anymouse
10-22-2011, 03:07 AM
Good series of posts. I think the Nieuport just moved up a couple spots on my wannabuild list.

Frank Giger
10-22-2011, 11:47 PM
Thanks for the kind words!

Had a little time today - let's work on those cabanes!

First, the seven degree sweep didn't work so well with my carefully fishmouthed spars.

I'm sure that I wound up riveting flush to the gusset instead of off setting it, allowing for the angle, though I don't know how!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab040.jpg

Well, let's fix it!

I learned my lesson about cutting or trimming anything that is together but can be taken apart. Drill out the rivets and draw a cut line:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab041.jpg

Fire up the belt sander, trim for a solid fit...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab042.jpg

Test for level and center to ensure I haven't trimmed my way out of trim - okay!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab043.jpg

The nice thing about pre-drilling all the bottom gussets is that they're interchangeable. I still made little marks to keep them in the same spots, though.

Let's lock down those front cabanes!

Deep breath - this is one of those "unfixable" places. It's got to be drilled right the first time or the top longeron is ruined - which would mean replacing the whole friggin' thing. Plus the top engine mounts get locked in here as well.

They've got to be square in two directions, standing straight up in the corners. Well, I've got some squares, electrical tape, and clamps.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab044.jpg

Sexy, ain't it?

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab045.jpg

Frank Giger
10-22-2011, 11:48 PM
Make a little mark for where to drill. Check that the bit is level and straight.

Okay, you can do this. It's just a hole through 10 layers of aluminum that can't be screwed up even a little bit.

Bah. To heck with it. Pull the trigger, let's go!

Pull the cabane off, put the bolt through and check for center and level:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab046.jpg

(Little "I didn't screw up" dance)

And sigh. The recess in the gusset isn't large enough. A cable has to connect from it to the rear cabane.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab047.jpg

Gonna have to trim that gusset back!

The good news:
1) I know how to do this, and it's a straight forward fix.
2) Tool purchase! Hurray! I needed one of those bullet shaped grinder thingies for my drill anyway.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab048.jpg

Issue tabled.

Set up the right front cabane for drilling...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cab049.jpg

And the battery on my drill goes dead. Hmmmm, gotta invest in some backups.

Anymouse
10-23-2011, 12:58 AM
and the battery on my drill goes dead. Hmmmm, gotta invest in some backups.

Doh!!

Chad Jensen
10-24-2011, 07:47 AM
And the battery on my drill goes dead. Hmmmm, gotta invest in some backups.
This has NEVER happened to me...nope, never. ;)

Frank Giger
10-28-2011, 07:11 AM
New corallary to the old Army saw of "Drop a Dime, Save a Marriage"* saying:

Drop a Dime, Save An Airplane.

Front cabanes locked in place, and the other wire bolts drilled - easy enough.

Drilled out the third rivets up on the rear cabane and put in the wire bolts that go there instead. I got a little rivet happy - no harm, though, as I had standardized their positions front and back and making a little hole bigger is infinately easier than the other way around.

I was about to drill and set the rear cabane to the longeron and a mental red flashing light started up along with sirens. It's got to match the upper wing precisely, so how far back to place it along the longeron? There's quite a bit of play on the reinforcing bits there.

Either I've got to be dead on the money with measurements or the wing will have to stretch or shrink to fit the cabane. Yeah, riiiggght...

Quick call to Robert, who was completely confused at the question.

"You got the front ones on and they're square, right?"
"Yep."
"Well, just align the rear one with the wing," he humphed, "it might not be a perfect 90 degrees, but try to get it close."
"Oh."
(Dual lightbulbs)
"We usually build the cabanes after we're done with the wings."
"Guess I better start building wings then!"

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I'm absolutely giddy this morning for some odd reason. Gonna lay out the table and get started on them.

* Smart soldiers ALWAYS called home when returning from the field or a deployment before leaving the unit. Gives the spouse time to clear out any (now) unwelcome guests.

"Hi, honey, I'm home! Hey, who the hell are you!"

Frank Giger
10-28-2011, 11:45 PM
Work area had become a disaster with the cabane build, as it wasn't on gear and the tail was lifted up on a saw horse:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw001a.jpg

Much better!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw002.jpg

Baslee style work table done! 2x4 on the saw horses, 2x6's screwed together lengthwise, stood up on edge and toed into the saw horses. MDF laid on top of them and screwed down.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw003.jpg

This is what it looks like under the MDF...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw004.jpg

Bag o' wing hardware with my name on it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw005.jpg

Here's the lower wing drawn out on the MDF.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw006.jpg

Frank Giger
10-28-2011, 11:46 PM
Of course this is drawing number two. I had established a reference line for the wing (never trust the square of a board!) and used it for the rearward spar.

But there is a tube that goes around there that the ribs tag into, and dang if was too far down and ran right off of the board. Not a problem, just had to erase a few lines and move the whole thing up.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw007.jpg

Had enough daylight to lay down the spars and the join-y up pieces.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw008.jpg

I'll use the same jig for both wings, since they're identical. One will be upside down, of course, but that's an easy annotation to make. The rib lines are just for reference - I'll mark where they go on the assembly with a sharpie as it lays on the table and put the ribs on with them suspended.

The MDF will get flipped over and drawn on for the upper wings.

I had really stressed the seven degree sweep for a long time until I really studied the plans. There's a two inch offset between the two spars that comes out to the right angle if the measurements are kept the same from the ends.

Frank Giger
11-05-2011, 02:04 AM
Got some time to work on the wing:

First issue is how to ensure that all my holes are on the same center,* in a nice even plane. Here's the low tech solution:

Scribble with a Sharpie over the area that crosses the line.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw009.jpg

Take a square and run it back and forth, making sure not to roll the tube when making the mark. All our centers have to be the same, after all.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw010.jpg

Now take the square and put it on the line and make a small scratch up to give a crosshair...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw011.jpg

Pilot hole - big bits tend to wander around in my hands.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw012.jpg

All assembled for test fit on the fuselage end...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw013.jpg

...and the interplane strut end. Those big thingies sticking up go to the landing wires.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw014.jpg

Of course I didn't drill the holes for the drag/anti-drag cable connections and had to take it all apart to put them in.

Time for some Alabama Engineering in mounting those cables.

They've got to be "as tight as you can make them" according to Mr. Baslee. My solution was to swag one end, cut and loop the other, put a vise grip on the tail, hook a bungee to it, and pull like hell until it stuck on an anchor screw I put down into the MDF.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw015.jpg

The first wire worked great - it's like a lower guitar string one can strum.

The second wire, though, fought me pretty hard and somehow wound up loose. Sigh. Gonna have to cut it and re-do it; my frustration level was to where I was glad the sun started to go down.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw016.jpg

Frank Giger
11-05-2011, 05:16 AM
A few notes:

You'll note a piece of scrap aluminum sheet bent over in some of the pics. I put it between the swagging tool and the spars to keep from scratching them up.

I figured out a better way to tighten cables. I'm going to take a turnbuckle and use it on the free end with a temp clamp, securing it with a bolt throught the MDF and using it to tighten.

And please note the go-no go gauge - check every swag!

Eric Witherspoon
11-05-2011, 08:23 AM
Frank,
I'm working on an Al tube & gusset biplane as well. Not a WWI replica, just a rather old-fashioned looking fun-flyer. I was curious what size tubes are used on the spars there. The design I'm working, I believe, in some ways is designed more like an ultralight made to look like a biplane - there's no drag/anti-drag cables in the wings - or compression struts! The aft "spar" is diagonal in the wing, intersecting the main spar maybe 2/3 of the way out, forming a big triangle, with only the main spar outboard of that.

Thanks,
Eric

Eric Witherspoon
11-05-2011, 11:54 AM
Didn't mean to ask without saying what I'm looking at here, just didn't have the data in front of me. The spars I'm working with are 3.0" x .062w for the mains, and 1.75" x .048w for the afts.

Frank Giger
11-08-2011, 01:03 AM
Front spar:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/spar01.jpg

Rear spar:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/spar02.jpg






Here's the improved method! Note the screwdriver warning says to never use as a pry bar or chisel. :lol:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw017.jpg

Couldn't resist - I had to lay the ribs on top just to see it. They're not drilled and coped for the rear support yet, so they're sitting high; they'll be adjusted to go down to the line you see near the tails.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw018.jpg

Here's the bend jig for the rear bow; I've got to make the one for the front yet. I'll make that rear bend, mark the spar for the hole to fit, put it through, and THEN bend the front to tag into the leading spar.

I also marked the spars with large TOP labels, as this will be the right lower wing. The other one will be built the same way, but with large BOTTOM labels, as I don't want to put the ribs on the same side for both!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw019.jpg

Here's the Big Bag O' Wing Parts emptied out.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wing_bag.jpg

I use the bucket technique to make sure I don't lose stuff, where I put everything into one big bucket. :P

Chad Jensen
11-08-2011, 08:22 AM
Looking great Frank...this build thread is really wetting my appetite.

Anymouse
11-08-2011, 10:11 AM
Looking great Frank...this build thread is really wetting my appetite.

http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/images/smilies/iagree.gif

You don't want to know how many times I've looked at the Airdrome Aeroplanes website after reading this thread.

Frank's thread might end up costing me a bunch of money!!!

Bill Ladd
11-08-2011, 04:50 PM
http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/images/smilies/iagree.gif

You don't want to know how many times I've looked at the Airdrome Aeroplanes website after reading this thread.

Frank's thread might end up costing me a bunch of money!!!

Then this won't help any...

http://vimeo.com/couchmode/chrisgerlach/videos/sort:date/25883864

Chad Jensen
11-08-2011, 05:05 PM
I need a mop for my drool pool now...thanks Bill. :cool:

Anymouse
11-08-2011, 08:23 PM
Then this won't help any...

http://vimeo.com/couchmode/chrisgerlach/videos/sort:date/25883864

Damn you!!!

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/images/smilies/More%20Smiles/cussing.gif

Frank Giger
11-09-2011, 02:31 AM
It is an evil video!

There's a bunch of WWI replica "all stars" in that video, too! Butch Witlock, Sharon and Dick Starks, etc., really go the extra mile in their planes. Russ and Rick with their authentic gauges and down-to-the-manufacturer's-stampings correct machinegun replicas just kill me (and oh, yeah, they are gas operated and "shoot" realistically).

Mine won't be to that standard. I'm going for modern instruments on a panel (the N11 didn't have one - in fact it only had one gauge - a tachometer - placed on one of the tubes), riveting the ribs vs. stitching, etc.

I'm also going to deviate from the historic paint pattern by putting roundels on top of the wings with the three color camouflage. The dark colors will show up better against the sky, and the roundels will really pop from above in the pattern (really slow green and brown plane against the ground might be bad).

Everyone modifies the plans! Since I'm all but certain to put in a V-twin up front I have the need and luxury of a wooden floor; it's as per the actual N11 and the V-twin is so light that I'll need some extra weight up front. I'm also putting in brakes (not in the plans) and most likely going with a rudder bar instead of pedals.

I spent the balance of a day at Liberty Landing with the KC Dawn Patrol folks and besides being the nicest group one could meet was absolutely transfixed by their Nieuport 11 replicas (built from Lee's plans).

The good of the Airdrome kits:

When they say inclusive, they mean inclusive - every bolt, nut, rivet, etc. included and clearly labelled.

Inexpensive - Eight grand for a complete kit firewall back? Heck, even I can afford that!

Support - not only is there a great builder's group, there's a larger WWI replica community out there to help out. And even more impressive, Robert Baslee will take one's phone calls and patiently answer even the most silly question!

Heck, it's worth buying the kit just to get access to the builder's assist program, which is really a School of Building Techniques.

Simple construction - the only welded part on the plane is the engine mount, where the cross members to the double H are put onto the long arms. All major machining is done; the gussets are pre-cut and only need minor deburring and adjustment.

When they say it can be built in the space of a one car garage with simple hand tools they ain't kidding! One can see in my build pictures the most exotic tools are the pneumatic rivet gun, safety wire pliers, sheet crimping tool, swagging tool, and go/no go gauge for swags. The rest of it (sheet metal snips, pliers, clamps, etc.) are pretty standard fare and not too expensive. The belt sander is a Harbor Freight 40 dollar special (caught on sale) and the drill press was 110 USD (which I had bought previously). I'm into lumber and saw horses for about 150 bucks, but they're all useful for other things.

The not so good:

The plans are drawings without a narrative. I spend a long time looking at them and translating them into process and procedure using mental CAD. Some of the measurement references are counter-intuitive; sometimes things are from the end of a spar, sometimes from a part inside the spar - one has to really pay attention.

The construction video that comes with it is generic (they work on a DVII), and while it does a good job showing a lot of critical tasks it skimps on others.

Most of Robert's customers are working on their second or third plane when they show up with a check, so I'm a minority voice in the matter. One will need help and advice in the build. Fortunately there is not only a support group around these planes but a national organization of people that build their own planes one can hook up with, including technical advisors. See your browser's address bar for more information on this organization.

While every gusset and bolt is included, there aren't any extras. Not a gripe - including extra bolts could easily double the cost of the kit - but be warned that if one loses a bolt or has to re-do a gusset or tube you're on your own to replace it. This is why I have a lot of "deep breath" moments; screwing up could get really expensive!

Some stuff isn't included that are mandatory customizations. Everyone puts in a different kind of seat based on preferences, so Robert just gave up on putting it in the plans or providing material. Camlocks for the forward sheeting and cowl aren't included, as I haven't found anyone to agree on what are the best to use. It might seem like quibbling, but then one starts to price camlocks, understanding that the cowl will need around 10-15 of them, it's a real "ulp" moment. The seat harness isn't included, nor are instruments (which makes sense).

Frank Giger
11-09-2011, 05:35 AM
Oh, and if you're unsure on your abilities, get the rudder ("Ruder") kit. Dirt cheap at 125 USD.

Shipping is UPS, and it really does entail 90% of the skills needed for the rest of the kit. If one can build the rudder, one can build the plane!

Even if one is thinking about the more expensive kits, grab the less expensive one, as chances are you'll put it to the side and re-do it anyway.

MrMorden
11-09-2011, 09:33 AM
I'm building a Sonex now, and had already been considering an Airdrome kit for my next project. This thread definitely nudges me in that direction... :cool:

Hal Bryan
11-09-2011, 11:11 AM
If I weren't contractually obligated never to own a single-seat airplane (read: married!), I could easily fall in love with one of the Airdrome Nieuports. The Taube is appealing as well - to me, that's the second-prettiest wing ever built. :)

Anyone built one of Graham Lee's (2-seat) Nieuport 12s?

Eric Witherspoon
11-09-2011, 10:31 PM
Thanks Frank, for the spar photos. I tried to find empty/gross (expected) weights for your plane, but couldn't. Did find the Wikipedia page that says there's only one of these 7/8 11's flying. I thought there might have been more, as the company seems pretty popular. Anyway, what I'm working on is a 2-seater, expected empty weight right around 500lbs, gross 1000lbs. They designed it for the Rotax 582 or Jabiru 2200. I'd prefer the more powerful engine, but the cost aspect is also pretty serious.

Chad Jensen
11-09-2011, 10:39 PM
If I weren't contractually obligated never to own a single-seat airplane (read: married!), I could easily fall in love with one of the Airdrome Nieuports. The Taube is appealing as well - to me, that's the second-prettiest wing ever built. :)Anyone built one of Graham Lee's (2-seat) Nieuport 12s?Hal, Hal, Hal...the single seat fighters the PERFECT goal to shoot for as a married guy. But, First, build the two seater...

bookmaker
11-10-2011, 06:16 AM
Hi Frank,

Just logging in to your thread here. Robert needs to send you advertising funds for spreading the word about the AA kits.:)

Someone mentioned that there is only one of the 7/8 AA Nieuports flying. I don't know if it is included, but Phil Arbee is flying a 7/8 scale AA built up as a N 23 that is a VERY nice airplane.

Dale
(building full size AA N 17)

Frank Giger
11-10-2011, 07:11 AM
I saw that on wikipedia as well, and am dead certain the numbers are wrong; it would mean that there was only the prototype 7/8 N11 built.

After all, you sent me pics of a Baslee N11 that had been built as well.

I found the construction DVD day before yesterday (it was in with the McClintock DVD!), and discovered a few things I've done in interesting ways. I've got the bolts for the carry-throughs backwards, for example; it's not a huge deal, but will show when I cover. I'm debating cutting the wires (again) and taking the whole thing apart to reverse them.

Frank Giger
11-12-2011, 02:23 AM
There are several two seat Nieuport 12's out there.

I'm a lucky guy in that my wife has put flying firmly into "my thing" and has put off a ride with me. She's afraid she'd like it too much and says we can't afford two pilots in the family. :P

She did, however, agree to go up with me in the next month or two in order to help me get my Passenger Endorsement. You know, the one every new pilot has to get by taking up a passenger that isn't their CFI. I'm so lucky to have such a supportive, trusting wife to help me flesh out my log book and complete yet another rating.

;)

Found the misplaced construction DVD and was enlightened in the opposite direction of my efforts (yet again).

Bolts are reversed in the compression struts (nut on the outside) and I somehow got the lift tangs inside the wire bracing tangs (I think little elves or pixies or something magically changed them around, as I distinctly remember putting the lift tangs on the spar side).

Oh, well, cable and swags are cheap, and it's an easy fix.

Instead of working on the wings, I decided on an hour and a half of intense psychotherapy:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/tg07.jpg

What's not in the plans is how the lower wings attach to the carrythroughs. In the DVD they show the DVII, which doesn't have a sweep to it and has sleeves in the carrythroughs - which aren't in my set of plans.

So another call to Robert....

Frank Giger
11-17-2011, 08:13 PM
So I discovered that magic ghosts have placed the lift tangs on the wrong sides of the drag/anti-drag wires and took it all apart and put it back together again, and put them in the right places.

I also got a chance to do some basic trig.

The problem with the dihedral with the bottom wings is that it's 2.5 degrees. No way I could ever measure that properly; what I need is how far to lift the end to give it the right angle at the carry through.

So I racked my personal mental wayback machine...one knows the angles and one side of the triangle...where do I remember that from? Oh, it's the "tree casts a shadow X long and the angle of the shadow is Y; how tall is the tree? question.

But in this case I know the distance to the top of the tree only.

Dang...oh! Law of Sines! SineA = Side B/Side C. So SineA x Side C = Side B. Look up the Sine of 2.5 degrees, do the math, and 5.25" is the lift! Just raise the end of the lower wing five and one quarter inch!

I can do that.

Oh, and I'm becoming an expert on swagging cable...

Anymouse
11-18-2011, 05:28 AM
Math is too hard. I'd just invest in a digital level. ;)

Frank Giger
12-10-2011, 02:23 AM
If one looks closely at the pic where the wing ribs are laid out there is a problem.

The thick things with the holes on the end are the lift tangs for the landing wires, and they're on the wrong side of the drag/anti-drag wires. They should be by the spars and the wires should be on the compression strut side.

Sooo.....tore it all apart and redid it. Got the other wing done, which went much faster than the first, though I did have to reverse the jig when it came to tightening - the lift tangs were in the way of the mirror image, poking down into the table.
Got the carry-throughs put in - what a huge pain in the kiester!

Ideally the holes that go through the verticals and the carry through tube would be level to flight, but with the curved fuselage and the tight spaces I wound up less than ideal. It's all firm and within tolerances, though.

And I got to buy some neat tools for the job.

A drill won't fit in the tight spaces, and a regular drill bit is too short for the long hole; so I went and got a great big long bit of the same size.

The carry-throughs are between the vertical struts of the fuselage and really close to the bottom longeron; one can't fit a drill in there. The solution was to buy a 90 degree drill adapter, which means one can, well, drill at 90 degrees.
The long bit is too long to fit to start, so I got the hole through the first upright tube and the first wall of the carry-through tube.

But the long bit was still too long.

Sigh.

Gotta cut the long bit down by about five inches. Now I don't know what the "right" way to do that is, but here was my technique:

1. Take a hack saw and run a groove around where I wanted the cut to be on the shaft of the bit.
2. Put the bit into a drill.
3. Put the hacksaw blade into the starter groove.
4. Turn the bit at low RPM's and work the blade back and forth a bit to keep it from getting too hot.
5. When the center of the bit got really small through the cut I snapped it apart.

And now it was short enough to fit between the uprights but long enough to drill all the way through.

Leveled the fuselage, measured down for where the carry-throughs go, and level them; it's a never mind about anything but getting the lower wings level with the upper wing and evenly spaced between them, after all.
Clamp and drill. I'd like to say my bolts go through all level and dead on center, but they don't! There just wasn't enough clearance to get that bit down low enough; so I've got between seven and two degrees off depending on which hole one is looking at!

I also need to get some bolts for them - I've somehow lost them! To continue on with the build while I wait for them to arrive, I grabbed some off the shelf bolts of the same size to provide stand ins.

Next up is to start building the wing jigs for mounting the upper wings and to install the "blades" that go into the lower wing carry-throughs so I can mount them to the fuselage.

Now things get interesting! With the carry throughs in I can set the upper wing compression struts and build their frames; when I mount the lower wings the carry-through distances get locked in. With them locked in I can put in the elevator and aileron controls. With the controls in I can put in the seat. With the seat in I can lock down the location of the rudder pedals.
And of course with the compression struts locked in on the upper wings, I can start putting ribs on all four wings....

I'll put some pics up later....

Frank Giger
12-12-2011, 12:16 AM
Here's some pics of the stuff I've done the last couple days:

Stacked the lower wing spar assemblies to double check that they are mirrors of each other:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw017.JPG

I didn't take the usual "step by step" pics of the carry-throughs, as it was cold and I kept moving to stay warm!
But it's pretty straight forward. The fuselage is leveled both ways (tail raised to flight position) and the tubes then placed on the level using little blocks and some clamps once it's measured down from the top longeron.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ct01.JPG

Because the most important thing is that the wings are level and consistent with each other, any inconsistency in the fuselage against the level is disregarded. It's irritating - the eigth of an inch twist in the whole of the 12 foot long fuselage is in the first 28 inches.

Anyhow, once the measurements and the level is established, the fun began! It's pretty tight to get at the holes that have to be drilled, and took on a multiple step process.

First a standard length drill bit was put into the 90 degree adapter and with care to keep it on line with the longeron and level to flight the hole through the first upright fuselage tube and into the first wall of the carry-through tube, which is as far as it could reach.

Next the long bit (which was too long to begin with and had to be cut down) was placed into the holes and slid forward to the opposite wall of the carry through tube. This gave enough room to put the 90 degree adapter in and finish the hole.
I slugged in a bog standard bolt since I have misplaced the proper AN ones....sigh. Well, let's all stimulate the economy through ignorance!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ct02.JPG

One thing that I have been grousing about is the "blades" used to hold the lower wings into the carry throughs. The lower wings aren't actually fastened to the fuselage this way - the landing wires hold them tight to the fuselage - but rather just work as guides to keep them in place. The method is to put an oblong plate "blade" of aluminum in the carry through and then slide the wings onto them.

It's not detailed in the plans and I just plain dislike that solution. The rear spar of the wing is smaller than the carry through tube and the blade is as well. They just don't extend into the wing far enough for my comfort.

My trial solution is to shape some wood that fits both smoothly with the right rearward sweep and dihederal angle.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ct03.JPG

I have a piece of tube that Robert gave me for the rib jig that I used to check for fit on the larger spar to see how it fits.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ct04.JPG

Pretty cool in that it is the same length as the distance from the start of the wing to the compression strut bolt.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ct05.JPG

I'll double check the dihedral angle - it looks too steep to me.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ct06.JPG

I worked up the rough blank for the rear spar as the light began to fail for me...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ct07.JPG

Frank Giger
12-17-2011, 01:44 AM
Since it's a deviation from the plans and a bit Southern in solution to use wooden plugs to guide and fix the lower wings to the fuselage, I called Robert Baslee to ask about it.

He said it's a very acceptable solution and added that I need to paint or otherwise treat the wood to prevent any reactions to the aluminum and to prevent rotting.

I fit the left wing onto the aircraft, and to my pleasant suprise found it not only fit well, but that I had nailed the sweep and dihedral dead on!

We also had a discussion on my plans for the upper wings.

Because the inner compression strut must align with the fuselage and the outer one must align with the lower wing (including dihedral) for the interplane struts, my plan is to make a rig that suspends them before assembly. I'll ensure they're center, leveled, and appropriately distanced and with the lower wings in place drop a plum bob to mark the compression strut locations for the upper wings.

Then I'll take the whole mess down and build the upper wing frames based on my marks.

Robert said it's a slight case of over-build, but I put it in the "must be right" category - the box kite must be a box! And I want all the stresses to be transferred equally and through the right points in the right way.

He naturally agreed that whenever possible "closer enough" should be "dead on" if one can make it that way.

Now I need two days of clear weather, as with wings the plane won't fit into my little work space and has to be done in the open of the back yard.

I'll put a pic up tomorrow....

Frank Giger
12-19-2011, 11:14 PM
Oh, the pic of the lower wing in its mounts...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw_mt.JPG

Frank Giger
01-10-2012, 01:44 AM
I've been lazy in updating this thread....

Both lower wing spars are done, along with the plugs for the carry-throughs. Naturally the weather has been yucky and I've been up for some overtime over the hollidays, so work slowed considerably. It's bugging me to have an airplane in the back yard not getting built, and I guess it shows as the wife commanded me to get out there and do something on it.

One of my big concerns has been getting the upper wing outer compression strut to align directly over the lower wing's outer compression strut, as the interwing struts attach there - and I want them to be vertical! I don't mind doing math, but nothing beats physical measurements.

I didn't need to make a whole cradle for the upper and lower wing spars; I only need to measure the rear spar on one of the wings. So here's the Alabama rig:
The camera might not be level, but the fuselage is! Note that the left rear wing spar is in the rear cabane, but not levelled.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg_001.jpg

Now that wing spar is level!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg_003.jpg

Lots going on with this picture - note the fantastic board in the foreground. It's stuck into the ground and tied to the chair for reinforcement. The spar is held in place with a bit of reject drag/anti-drag wire looped through two holes and tied in the back.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg_002.jpg

The board past that is stood up on the lower wing compression strut to see where it will hit the upper spar.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg_004.jpg

Too easy to ensure it's vertical with a level and make some marks with a Sharpie.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg_005.jpg

Naturally it's rained and been yucky the last couple of days, so things slowed down on the build. I'm getting antsy about the delay again.

Chad Jensen
01-10-2012, 08:20 AM
Good update Frank! To have a WWI replica fighter going together in your backyard...how cool!

Frank Giger
02-06-2012, 12:09 AM
With the weather switching between freezing cold and tornado near misses, I hadn't gotten much done lately.

But it's improved dramatically, so the upper wings were drawn out and the spars for the right wing getting laid out. Pics tomorrow...

Frank Giger
02-10-2012, 01:27 PM
Okay, some pics!

First I had to rebuild my table - MDF over 2x6's on saw horses (Baslee table) and draw stuff out:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw001.JPG

Lay out the spars and put all the parts on the table so I won't have to go hunting for them once I get started.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw002.JPG

Remember all that work I did making sure the outer compression strut hung over the lower outer one so the interwing supports would be straight up and down? Turned out it fell right on the plan's measurements. Well, it's good to know I'm doing stuff right.

I write a lot of idiot proofing junk on my board, too.

Note I couldn't remember how to spell aileron!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw003.JPG

Don't look glum back there in the corner, Bebe, we'll get you flying soon enough.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw004.JPG

The Noop11 has a reinforcing sleeve at the outer compression strut. Measure where half is from the hole and make a mark to the end...\

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw005.JPG

Then measure from there to the end of the spar:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw006.JPG

Frank Giger
02-10-2012, 01:29 PM
The construction video that comes with the kit talks about deburring and WD-40, but both the insert and the spar were smooth as can be and it slid right in!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw007.JPG

Push it in with a metal ruler until it's in the right length:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw008.JPG

Drill the pilot holes...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw009.JPG

...and run some safety wire through it. The thought of having the sleeve shift in there and the holes getting lost horrified me, but this did the trick. I drilled the other pilot holes no problem.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw010.JPG

First big hole for the bolt, and I kept the wire in the other side to keep it from shifting about.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw011.JPG

Drill the other side with a bolt in to keep things stable.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw012.JPG

Frank Giger
02-10-2012, 01:33 PM
Back the bolt out, ensure the hole is a happy seven degrees, and put it back in.

Trailing spar of the right wing ready!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw013.JPG

Same procedure for the insert on the leading edge.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw014.JPG

Clue - don't push too fast or force anything. I kept even pressure and went slowly to keep from going past the measurement.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw015.JPG

One really has to take care to inspect every nut on the compression strut mounts. There has to be at least one thread past the nut, but one doesn't want to go too tight or it's possible to crush the spar.

Once the wing it together you will never, ever see this nut again.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw016.JPG

Ready for wires!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw017.JPG

Standard "Frank" method of tensioning. I'm glad I did the lower wings first, as I could use the wire I had to cut because of having the tangs in the wrong order - they were much longer for the lower wings than the upper, as the bays are smaller.

Careful inspection had me throwing one of them away, though, as I didn't like a kink that was in it close to the midpoint.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw018.JPG

Frank Giger
02-10-2012, 01:35 PM
The swags were a lot easier on the upper wings than the lower, as the angles are greater, allowing the tool to fit without a lot of drama.

Bit of spare sheet to protect the spar and a go/no-go gauge used on every swag.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw019.JPG

Tada! Right upper wing spar assembly done.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw020.JPG

A few notes:

I put "top" and "right" on the wing, as it lets me know orientation for when I pull down the flying/landing wire attachment tangs.

The stupid bracing wire tangs at the compression struts are a super PITA. They're stainless steel and don't have the holes drilled into them - I burnt up a few bits making them, mostly because my drill press has only one speed and I couldn't keep the temps down. Step bits work best, if it is heartbreaking to turn them into useless smooth cones.

:mad:

It would probably be cheaper to find some shop to drill them.

Two coffee cups because the wife actually brought me a hot cup of tea (it's in the forties today). She tries to play cool about the build, but I think she's actually kind of jazzed that there's an airplane being made by her husband in the back yard.

:)

1684zach
02-10-2012, 06:33 PM
Frank, Thanks for putting this on here! If others like it as much as I am, I think I may make a thread with my Freebird Innovations Light Sport Ultra build progress. It's encouraging to see others building, and similar building techniques. -Zach

1548

Frank Giger
02-11-2012, 12:24 AM
Heck yeah we want to see it!

We put the "E" in "EAA," after all!

Yellow Peril
02-13-2012, 08:42 AM
The swags were a lot easier on the upper wings than the lower, as the angles are greater, allowing the tool to fit without a lot of drama.

Bit of spare sheet to protect the spar and a go/no-go gauge used on every swag.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw019.JPG

Tada! Right upper wing spar assembly done.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw020.JPG

A few notes:

I put "top" and "right" on the wing, as it lets me know orientation for when I pull down the flying/landing wire attachment tangs.

The stupid bracing wire tangs at the compression struts are a super PITA. They're stainless steel and don't have the holes drilled into them - I burnt up a few bits making them, mostly because my drill press has only one speed and I couldn't keep the temps down. Step bits work best, if it is heartbreaking to turn them into useless smooth cones.

:mad:

It would probably be cheaper to find some shop to drill them.

Two coffee cups because the wife actually brought me a hot cup of tea (it's in the forties today). She tries to play cool about the build, but I think she's actually kind of jazzed that there's an airplane being made by her husband in the back yard.

:)

For drilling stainless use Boelube on the bits. I have bits that have drilled dozens of holes in stainless and they are still nice and sharp. When I finish a couple more projects I really want a Nieuport 28. Really like the Airdrome kits. Don

Frank Giger
02-21-2012, 02:40 AM
Got a push-up stick of Boelube and it works as advertised! Thanks for the heads up!

Started on the aileron ribs, which was a typical comedies of errors. "When in doubt, make a practice piece" was a nice bit of foresight. I'll put pics up later; I'm going to have to do some extra engineering on them, but now I have a system to make them work.

Frank Giger
02-23-2012, 08:20 AM
I'm at least 2.456% better as a man due to the character building of these stupid aileron ribs! :)

First, Robert fell victim to Baslee Plan Syndrome and cut the ribs based on the measurement of length on the drawings - which aren't the length of the piece, but the length measured from the center of the hole in the spar to bow.

They're all an inch too short for their advertised positions.

This isn't a gripe, as I can certainly see how it happens and I would have had to fabricate ribs anyway. The material is the same as in the optional headrest (which I'm not putting on), and it's an easy measure and cut. Every rib just moves down one and I'll make the long one.

Second, I learned how NOT to make the rib, which is by bending it along measured lines and then cutting the hole and trying to make the fitting sleeve go in:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai001.jpg

Note the lack of little tabs around the curve. Suckers just snap off under the least pressure. Sigh. This piece wouldn't even fit the sleeve, as the bend is about a 32nd of an inch too narrow.
Time for a different approach.

I laid the sleeve onto the piece where it should go.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai002.jpg

(Disregard the brain fart I was having trying to spell aileron when laying out the plans...we all have those days, don't we?)

Rivet in place, keeping the "nice" side of the rivets on the underside, away from the bend.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai004.jpg

Make the bends for the rib stitching rivets.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai005.jpg

Frank Giger
02-23-2012, 08:22 AM
Drill the rivets out and remove the sleeve from the piece. I ran a Sharpie around the inside just for fun.\

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai006.jpg

Take out the hole saw and file and re-fit the sleeve with the proper orientation to the piece.

The hole will be slightly too small owing to the diameter of the sleeve, but patient work makes it fit.

The rivets are lengthwise because my vertical holes came out a hair off in lining up.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai007.jpg

Make cuts to bend down along the curve and gently, gently bend with my thumb until they each just snap off. Count to ten and embrace the growth of my character.

Smooth with a sander and fit it to the aileron control arm to see how it looks.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai008.jpg

So what I'm going to do is take a piece of scrap and complete the circle around, riveting to the rib stitching bend.

There's a leading edge that gets bent around this, so I'm not terribly concerned about it.

Those little tabs is what I'm thinking needs annealing. If I soften just a bit around that circle they might not snap.

About this point it was thankfully getting dark and I had to quit before throwing something.

Not my best day building.

Frank Giger
03-03-2012, 03:30 AM
The panel is starting to come together. Slip indicator, altimeter, and airspeed indicator are here! Also got the gascolator and the pitot tube.

The airspeed indicator is hilarious in that I rolled it over in my hands and flipped it over to look at the back side.

In big letters it says DO NOT BLOW INTO THE HOLES. I guess I'm not the only one with that idea! :eek:

Frank Giger
03-07-2012, 07:29 AM
I finally have all the things I need to work on the aircraft:

Last night off, so I got some sleep and so I am not fatigued.
Temps in the 60's so it'll be warm.
No rain.
Winds too much to go flying, but not too much to work in the Wonder Tarp.
No Honey-Do's that can't be postponed.

Goal is to have one aileron done...we'll see.

Funny conversation the other day with a few folks who think I'm bugnuts for building an airplane and even crazier for putting a Big Twin in the front, particularly about the engine.

"It's a motorcycle engine!"
"Yep."
"It's two cyclinders!"
"Absolutely."
"Who would be crazy enough to come up with that idea?"
"Glenn Curtiss," I smirked and then laughed.

(Glassy-eyed looks except for one guy who said "I thought he raced motorcycles...")

Frank Giger
03-12-2012, 11:22 PM
Pics of the trials of the aileron.

I had managed to snap off every one of the little teeth-tabs at the front of the root aileron rib and started rubbing my head in the effort to get the thinking parts inside working.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai009.jpg

There isn't going to be much of a gap here!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai008.jpg

Let's take another approach and anneal that curve. Note the ash color of Sharpie that denotes the right temp was reached (I prefer red Sharpies as the ink evaporates at the correct heat, but I had used a black one when drawing it out).

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai013.jpg

Cut the tabs out.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai014.jpg

Roll the piece on the table to bend...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai011.jpg

And notice the bend has a crack on the bow end of the rib....

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai012.jpg

Well, sh--, at least I figured out the tab thing, so no use throwing something.

Frank Giger
03-12-2012, 11:24 PM
Nothing to do but try it again.

Anneal, cut, and roll the tabs down....

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai015.jpg

Success! Hurray!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai016.jpg

On the root aileron rib where I snapped the teeth off, I fabricated a curved piece that has a tab in the center that is locked in with a rivet.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai017.jpg

Personally I think this looks and works better than the tab system.

Make the rest of the ribs and put them in place, coping the ends.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai018.jpg

Bend the bow!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai019.jpg

Lock down the bow and get ready to make the top bend...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ai020.jpg

I didn't like the fact that the base rib on the inside would have a rivet top and bottom on tabs, so I made a loop to go around it, secured it to the rib, and put the rivet on the backside of the bow, capturing it all the way around.

Sadly, I've been working overtime and have been wiped out; this week is to be a normal one so I'll have a chance to get back into it Wednesday-Friday. I put in for four days off week after next to get on the other upper wing and aileron.

bookmaker
03-13-2012, 07:12 AM
Dart, I hate to ruin your "success", but you should round out the bottom portion of the "V"s that you cut into the front of the ribs for the bends. The sharp "V" points will generate cracks. Generally, a 1/4" or so hole should be drilled at the bottom of the cut to make a round bottom "V".

Do you know what metal you are using? Also, which way is the grain running?

I am in the process of rebuilding the stab and elevators on mine. I made sure to get the sheet aluminum for the ribs in a size that I can cut them aligning the grain cross ways so that they are less likely to crack when I bend them.

Dale

Frank Giger
04-13-2012, 11:44 PM
Sigh - some days are just heart breaking.

Today was:

Put the leading edge on the aileron. It's a piece of sheet metal that gets bent around those goofy ribs I made. Procedure:

1. Mark the center of the sheet metal.
2. Anneal to soften it for the bend.
3. Secure it on one side of the ribs.
4. Gently and firmly roll the whole thing on the table around the ribs.
5. Gasp that it actually worked!
6. Rivet on the other side to hold it in place.

The sheet isn't long enough to cover the whole aileron, and I started on the inside. I realized that I needed to put the bow on the upper wing to ensure that it made a clean line with the aileron. It's a simple bend and rivet job.

However, my build table was a mess! The wing had been pushed out of the way when working on the aileron and I had piled all manner of tools and paper and junk on top of it.

Aileron on the floor, stuff off the table, sweep it off, step on the aileron leading edge and bend the crap out of it, put the wing back on the table, line it up, step on the aileron and bend the crap out of the leading edge, get the end bow for the upper wing and....wait a second.

I stepped on the aileron leading edge twice, bending the crap out of it.

There are times when one doesn't even cuss, as no words - even the bad ones - will do.

Surveying the damage, I try to salvage the mess into something resembling a nice curve of sheet metal. My results are fine if one were to simulate severe hail damage as part of the build process.

Oh well. Put on the upper wing end bow, ensure the aileron bow is on line with it, and lock it down. End of session.

Tomorrow I'm going to see if gently annealing the aluminum can take the crappy divots out and make it a smooth curve again. If not it's going to be easy to remove it, cut a piece from the big square piece of sheet I bought a long time ago and do it over.

Yellow Peril
04-14-2012, 07:10 AM
I bet you end up drilling it off and making a new one. Don

Frank Giger
04-14-2012, 06:23 PM
Yep - took a fresh look at it today and it's beyond repair.

I am getting weary of learning experiences that build character.

Yellow Peril
04-15-2012, 06:55 AM
I found it takes less time and you get a better result if you just start over and do it again. Don

Frank Giger
04-17-2012, 12:39 AM
Just for grins I took off the dented leading edge and applied a rubber mallet over some PVC pipe of the same diameter of the aileron with suprisingly good results. The few divoty waves are very small and a quick fabric check shows that a little felt will smooth them right out.

Frank Giger
05-04-2012, 11:46 PM
Just for fun, let's start out with how NOT to make a leading edge for an aileron!

Measure around with some paper to find out where the center is:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/aic001.JPG

Anneal the aluminum and rivet it to one side.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/aic002.JPG

Roll it over, pressing with one's hands will give it that hail damage effect that few can deny is rarely achieved!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/aic004.JPG

Hmmm, that didn't work out so well. Perhaps if I just rolled it around some PVC pipe before putting it on the aileron...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/aic005.JPG

Muffin topped leading edge! Woohoo!

:P

Do over!

Frank Giger
05-04-2012, 11:47 PM
Clearly I needed to completely rethink the process. I polled the guys at the EAA and even posted on the Airdrome builder's group for advice.

Naturally I came up with something goofy!

Behold the Giger-matic aileron leading edge bending machine!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/aic006.JPG

That's 1.25" PVC pipe on the right (inside) and 1.5" on the outside held together with some wood I planed to fit using my table saw with a couple of bolts. Genius! It only took me two weeks to work that out.

:eek:

So the leading edge is wedged under a board screwed to the work table and the GMALEBM is inserted over the piece:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/aic007.JPG

Bending upwards, the curve is started until the whole thing can be moved to the floor and rolled with one's knees on the center of the PVC pipe.

Many, many times.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/aic008.JPG

The trailing edges were then marked at about a quarter inch and bent down around 20 degrees to stiffen it up and the whole thing gets riveted to the aileron:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/aic009.JPG

Woohoo for real!

I also taped the aileron ribs where they meet the leading edge before putting it on.

Now all I have to do is put the other piece on for the center and then on the other side of the aileron holder piece thingie, which should be fun.

And then do it all over again for the other side.

:rollseyes:

snj5
05-05-2012, 01:10 AM
As Wile E. Coyote would say, "Suuuuuper Geeeeenius!!!!"

Frank Giger
05-05-2012, 01:16 AM
:D

Hey, whatcha doing over here? Back to theaerodrome.com with you!

And a big plug for http://www.theaerodrome.com where they've really helped me out tremendously on this build. All things WWI and loads of experts. As I wrote in the first post of this saga, this thread is really just a mirror of the one there where they gently lead me in the right direction.

Frank Giger
06-02-2012, 03:24 AM
Realizing that I had forgotten a personal rule in building - when frustrated or stymied by one task, do another! - I left the stupid aileron alone so it can sit and think about the trouble it's caused and tackled the brake drums.

Since the last time I welded anything the President was Reagan and I was wishing I could afford parachute pants to go with my full head of hair, I enlisted the aid of my father-in-law - farmer, builder, and fabricator of well deserved renown all through DeKalb County.

The problem, of course, is that the hole for the drum is larger than the hub of the wheel and something had to be put between them.

Scrounging around barns we found a nice piece of pipe that fit the bill. Unfortunately, the band saw had only wood blades, so it had to be cut by hand. I wielded the SawsAll with an expert eyes and in what I will unashamedly brag on cut two pieces an inch long perfectly square with two cuts and off a sixteenth of an inch off on the other two. A grinder brought them into tolerance in minutes.

Only to find the pipe was an eight of an inch too thin around in the outer diameter to the drum once all the rust and gunk was removed from it. The drum and pipe are both too thin to risk a fill weld - plus it's got to be perfectly centered to the axel.

A local machine shop said they had some stuff that would fit the bill in scrap and they'd be more than happy to just give us some. Only it was machined stuff that had a thickness of an inch and weighed a friggin' ton.

We were pretty low - both of us have made a lot of mileage out of figuring out how to use one thing for another, when I randomly kicked a round bit of scrap something that was under the well cluttered garage/workshop work bench. It rolled across the floor and rested against the welding machine.

We both looked at each other with the same model of light bulb clearly visible above our heads (okay, mine's running at just 20 watts) as he got to it first and scooped it up. It was an old bearing race that had given its all in a tractor or some other farm machine. The inside fit around the bearing hub of the wheel like a glove, and the other end fit over the hole of the drum nicely. Son of a....

I scraped grease off of the hub and ground down a bit where the bearing had departed to make one side flat while my father-in-law accessed his super-duper spacial memory to figure out where he had tossed another when replacing them. He found it under a rag under a pile of other cast-off, broken parts.

The arc welder he has is a fine piece of machinery, six feet tall and a state of the art contemporary to the Saturn V rocket. The gauges had long since given up the ghost and I noted that he flipped the switch and rotated the huge crank on the front in a posture that nearly perfectly matches one takes when hand propping. At a certain level of hum he judged it was 'bout right and we did some test beads on some random angle stock.

My skills were immediately deemed good enough if one wanted some ugly cuts through rebar but not much else, and he took the rod from me.

The amperage had been dialed down to the minimums to do the job ("that wheel is awful thin") and after I had centered the bearing race on it he put down the first tack weld. We spun it on the axel mount I brought and we locked it down with several more.

At which point we discovered his welding rods were well past their prime. Zzzzzzzztttt....darned it....pull stuck rod....zzzzzttttt. I glanced at the box - they had the name of a farm store that went out of business when I was in Desert Storm. Oh well.

I centered the drum on the race using the Mark One Eyeball and we did a single tack. On went the axel for a spin with a tape measure running from the center to the edge of the drum.

Hand me that ball peen, I said casually, and one tiny whack later it was dead on. Tacked around using the zzzzztttt-damn-zzzztttt technique. And we found every hole in the drum for extra fun.

We put out the rag on the floor that caught fire from some slag and grinned at each other. I was holding the tire of the wheel to keep it in place on the anvil we rested it on. While wearing a t-shirt. Fortunately the rag was right next to my foot, so it was easy to stomp out.

"It ain't gonna happen," I winked at the unspoken question and he shrugged. Third degree burns from jumping slag just wasn't on the menu; I only ever got burned by it when wearing the appropriate gear back in Agricultural class.

We did the same for the other wheel, except it didn't even need a tap to center the drum. It might be off center, but someone will need a micrometer laser to put a number on it.

Tap tap with a small hammer to get the slag off and done.

It ain't the prettiest welding ever done, but once I take a wire brush to it and some paint nobody will ever see it - and now my plane can have some brakes!

Frank Giger
07-03-2012, 08:41 AM
Been doing a lot of little things - got the aileron done and thought I'd tackle some other stuff before beginning the other upper wing, like assembling the fake gun and working out how I'm going to do the seat.

Anyhow, some pics of how the wheel brakes went.

This is the problem:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/whl001.JPG

as one can see, the hub and the brake drum don't exactly mesh.

The solution:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wheel01.JPG

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wheel02.JPG

My poor paint line down the drum gives the false impression that it's katywhompus, but in fact it's true!

The welds ain't the prettiest, but the drums are on solid as can be!

Frank Giger
11-08-2012, 12:50 PM
I figured I'd update the thread, since I've gotten quite a bit done after my hiatus from building. This summer proved just too hot to do a lot of work in a tent in the back yard safely. Highest temp recorded back there was 140 degrees....which came down to 110 after fans were turned on. There's tough and then there's stupid....no way I was going to risk heat stroke for an aircraft.

Did the other upper wing (all four wings, hurray) and cut and fitted the other aileron ribs.

Learned an important lesson: when bending two identical bows from aluminum tubing ALWAYS BEND BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. One can't replicate the bends exactly after a delay of a couple of weeks (or even a couple of days). The jigs (all my jigs are temporary) and one's technique will change.

With the weather finally cooperating, I took a couple days off to get some stuff done:

First things first: must bring order to chaos!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw01.JPG

Better:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw02.JPG

Here's the PVC oversleeves that keep the aileron from shifting left and right.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw03.JPG

They're sanded very fine to give a smooth edge and I made a wax ring on top of each.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw04.JPG

Eventually this ring will wear down, allowing a little shift left and right. That's okay, as it will allow the spar to flex a bit and not be totally bound by the aileron spar (more on this later).

For all the craziness I went through with leading edges, making a new one took just a minute or so using the jig and a board to do the final pressing around the pipe.

The little dimple part way down was what I was wasting time and materials on - I kept trying for perfect, which is stupid.

The rubber mallet that one will see in most pictures is for whacking the table with when either frustrated or elated. Nothing helps the building process quite like a good whack with a rubber mallet onto a non-essential object.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw05.JPG

It fit like a glove!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw06.JPG

Frank Giger
11-08-2012, 12:51 PM
Once I had both the leading edges on the aileron* just for fun I grabbed some landscaping material I had laying arournd and did a quick cover check. The little dimple is invisible.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw07.JPG

*Why two pieces of leading edge? Functional fixedness. Since Robert Baslee provided leading edge pieces of a certain length I simply copied them when I got my own sheet rather than do the logical thing of making it one longer piece.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw08.JPG

End of the aileron cut with a measure check to see if the horn would clear the bow when the rear cabane was in place. Zip strips kept the aileron spar in rough position. No way that aileron mount (just the other side of the zip ties) would fit on the inside of the compression strut.

It's here that I smacked myself for not putting on the bow on the end of the upper wing spars.

What you're not seeing is the end of the wing spar bow curved inward to where it's not flush so that it can't be riveted to secure it (the rear was a-okay).

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw09.JPG

I could have drilled out the intial rivets on the ends, pulled it out and monkeyed with it until I either broke the bow or got it to where it wasn't even close to matching the other one, but I went another direction.

First I measured to the end of the bow, backed up a few inches, and drilled a rivet hole:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw10.JPG

Insert a length of safety wire and push it to the end of the spar to where I can get at it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw11.JPG

Make a loop, reverse the direction, and get it over the end of the bow.

Note the inserts in the spar that give it extra strength at the compression struts.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw12.JPG

Frank Giger
11-08-2012, 12:54 PM
Twist with the safety wire until it's tight, pull hard until it's flush, hold in place with vice grips, drill a hole about an inch or so down from it and rivet to lock it down.

Cut the wire and remove:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw13.JPG

Put a rivet in the hole. I can get away with this since it's not structural - it's a guide for the fabric around the end of the wing first and foremost. The compression struts and wires hold the wing together.

Scary time!

Gotta put the control rod mounts onto the aileron control horns. I don't know if Robert included the bolts for this, but I had some AN4-15 bolts handy that fit just right and didn't dig into to the kit parts.

Part secured using space-age materials:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw14.JPG

Whew. Both done. Note that the rod mounts are facing in different directions. the mount will be on the outside (towards the wing end) with the curved strength piece on the top of the control rod.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw15.JPG

A little idiot proofing for when I start putting on ribs. While they're identical on the table (the ailerons aren't biased either way in rib shape), it would suck to put the ribs on identically and have two left or right wings.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw16.JPG

Marking the spars where the mounts hit. The problem is that the mounts are cut too shallow and there isn't enough seperation between the leading edges and the wing spar - the edge actually butts up against it.

I spoke to Mr. Baslee and he said spacers were just the ticket.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw17.JPG

After much scratching of my bald head and half a pack a cigarettes, I went with using some PVC pipe that matched the diameter of the spar, cut and glued in a single stack.

To hold them in place I went with some aluminum ducting tape, as the adhesive won't corrode the spar and it's pretty strong. It only really has to hold it until the mounts are in...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw18.JPG

Frank Giger
11-08-2012, 12:55 PM
Deep breath!

Cutting the other aileron to length for the control horn. Finally a use for that mitre box; I sure as hell wasn't going to use it to build cabinets or something!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw19.JPG

Lining up before locking down the aileron. Note:

2x4 boards were placed under the wing spars to get the aileron off the table, as they're thicker than the wing spars right after this picture was taken.

Spacers are in place under the mounts. Because the mounts themselves aren't perfect semi-circles a bit of whacking was required for best fit. The PVC gave admirably, allowing shallow cuts for a perfect alignment.

How I voted on Tuesday (see coffee cup).

This was also a good time to take a break!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw20.JPG

I figured one of the best way to ensure I was dead center on the end of the aileron spar to the wing spar was to align the bows (since I know they're center...and they need to be aligned regardless).

Switched mugs to something more appropriate as well.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw21.JPG

Not much clearance even with the spacers.

You can see how the mount mated perfectly with the spacers in the background.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw22.JPG

While not optimal, I had to rivet into the top of the spar, as no amount of whacking on the mounts to make them curve around would give me enough purchase to put them on the sides.

With it starting to get dark, I called it a day!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rw23.JPG

This is where those "wax rings" come in. The aileron is locked in tightly - it rotates easily, but no left and right motion. Over time it'll get about a 1/32nd an inch play, which will let the thing flex a bit and hopefully avoid too much stress along the rivets.

Unless I have my physics and metallurgy backwards.

Frank Giger
11-09-2012, 07:46 AM
Remembering that "scrap" is Swabian for "stuff you just haven't found a use for yet," I locked the aileron in neutral position with some tubing and zip ties.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw01.JPG

The idiot proofing really helped out, as this determined which control horn was put on the end of the aileron spar:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw02.JPG

In this case, since it's the left (and upside down), the horn is also upside down (reinforcing curve thingie on bottom).

The horn is put level with the compression strut using the roll of aluminum tape and a bit of plywood.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw03.JPG

Drill and bolt - since it's upside down, the nut is on the top.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw04.JPG

That done, I turned my attention back to the ailerons. I don't like how there's these great big holes where the hinges are, as they're big drag catchers with the air driving right into the aileron itself.

So I came up with a bit of aluminum that I quickly bent to form a box around it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw05.JPG

I made one for both, and both are narrower than the leading edges so they can bend with the fabric. I'll rivet and seal with aluminum tape tomorrow, which should do the trick.

Frank Giger
11-13-2012, 07:18 PM
Today was an almost perfect repeat of the other aileron mounting, except...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw06.jpg

Well, one can cut twice after all - provided one is taking off a little bit to ensure the leading edge isn't rubbing the aileron mount.

Got this very specialized aluminum trimming machine in the aircraft manufacturing section of Staples.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw07.jpg

Ah, that's better!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw08.jpg

I'll spare a blow by blow of putting the other aileron on since it's just a repeat of the other one. It started getting dark as I finished up...gotta put in the boxes behind the mounts and then it's time to start working on ribs!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw09.jpg

1684zach
11-14-2012, 09:25 AM
Looking good Frank! I've been wondering if you have been able to make any progress. My work schedule has been enough that I have a hard time finding time to get more done on my plane. -I guess it's a good problem to have that much business, it's just kind of depressing every time I see the plane all lonely like in the shed. ;) Zach

Frank Giger
11-14-2012, 07:22 PM
I know how that goes!

This summer was either busy with work (overtime looks good on a paycheck but is almost not worth it) or it was literally too hot to work safely.

With the weather cooling and it getting too much to bear hearing airplanes fly near the house, I jumped back into building with both feet. Plus renting the Champ is too expensive for more than proficiency training (which I'll be the first to admit I really need).

Frank Giger
11-24-2012, 05:05 PM
So when last we left off, I was getting ready to make ribs for the wings. Terribly frustrating, and I disencouraged by the fact that I was trying to build ribs at 90 degrees to the spars when they're supposed to be 83...for the 7 degree sweep....and they were coming up a tad short at the bow end. Nothing that can't be worked around - it's only one upper rib that is a bit kurtz and a tiny gusset will fix that. I'll have to come up with a better solution.

But I also had another issue to work out first!

I had bent and fitted the bow for the ribs from the aileron in waaay back when I was still monkeying around with aileron leading edges. If one recalls, the solution was spacers.

So now the bow isn't parallel to the spar, but a quarter inch further out at the aileron bow, which it must match. Trapazoid hell.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib001.jpg

As a bonus, the aileron horn now smacks the bow. But it sure looks pretty otherwise.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib003.jpg

The bow and the aileron bow are supposed to have a half inch space between them. Okay, let's set that first.

A little electrical tape on a bit of metal I had laying around should do the trick.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib004.jpg

Hey, lookie there, half an inch and it holds them in line with each other.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib005.jpg

Frank Giger
11-24-2012, 05:07 PM
Okay, forget the plan measurements; let's deal with what is rather than what could have been.

It's 8 3/4 inches from back of the wing spar to the aileron rib.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib006.jpg

Let's match the wing root end of the bow to match.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib007.jpg

Carefully bend to meet the new distance and rivet.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib018.jpg

A bit of PVC pipe, some zip ties and a chunk of plywood and it's center to the rear spar and level to it!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib008.jpg

It is a gorgeous day...I wound up stripping off my sweatshirt pretty quickly.

And yes I am definately putting my fingers in my ears and shouting la la la I can't hear you when it is pointed out what a nightmare I have created when it is time to cover.

Frank Giger
11-24-2012, 05:08 PM
So now I can concentrate on the big problem - making ribs to fit at 7 degrees sweep.

First, let's measure out where everything falls at seven (or eighty-three) degrees using a compression strut.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib009.jpg

This is the problem - it's still a flat ninety degree world on the scrap MDF.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib011.jpg

But if we elevate the front and rear spar guides (four inches in the front, which matches the offset of the two spars and a little bit for the rear one), we get to our goal of a more three demensional jig.

Note the plywood above the MDF with the cutouts for the spar bits.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib012.jpg

Seven degrees, baby....I need seven degree elevation from bow to front spar...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib013.jpg

Blammo! Seven degrees incline.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib014.jpg

(Do a little jig in honor of the jig, knocking stuff all over the place)

Frank Giger
11-24-2012, 05:09 PM
A few pieces of plywood and some clamps after moving it into the sunshine!

Note I had to trim out the back of the MDF for the "tails" to continue the line.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib015.jpg

But before I drill anything, I need to validate the jig to the wing. Time to call the wife into assistance, as the jig is heavy and there's no way I can hold it up and take pictures at the same time.

This is her yesterday when we went to her parent's house for Thanksgiving.

I'm still not quite sure why she ever allowed me to marry her.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wife01.jpg

Take the damned picture, honey, it's heavy and I'm not only holding it up but pushing it against the wing.

The jig is also "backwards" because I'm sticking it against the root end...to have it match with the bow junction at the back I'd have to use the other end of the wing, which has the end bow and aileron on it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib016.jpg

It's hard to tell from this photo (there's no room to back up and get a good one without screwing up perspective), but it's a match to the angles.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib017.jpg

She took one more picture because she said I looked so pleased with myself.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib019.jpg

I also get the award for messiest work area floor ever.

2VW
11-24-2012, 06:04 PM
Feels so good to make progress.

jpogf7
12-04-2012, 02:49 PM
This is awesome Frank! Do you have a list of tools you have/recommend for someone wanting to build one of these beauties?

Frank Giger
12-06-2012, 07:29 AM
It's a very short list and pretty humble, to be honest!

Critical is a Harbor Freight belt sander (30 bucks) and pneumatic rivet puller gun thingie (40 bucks), along with an air compressor (mine is a small pancake one from Lowe's or Home Depot that I got for 100 bucks with hoses and junk). You'll need a small bending brake (Harbor Freight, 40 bucks).

Small drill press (you can see it in pictures, it's 140 bucks if memory serves).

Corded drill - cordless ones run out of battery just when you're in the groove of things.

Standard drill bit sets - you'll use mostly 1/4 and 1/8th inch bits, the latter of which come in packs of ten or twelve for a reason; you'll burn through them a suprising amount of time.

Half moon shaped (about a quarter inch wide) and big flat metal files.
Rubber mallet. Get two. One for banging on metal, the other for throwing when you're frustrated (but always AWAY from the airplane).
Ball peen hammer. Never throw it, though.
Hack saw and blades.
Cheapo clamps - spring loaded and C clamps from Harbor Freight.
Pliers, wrenches, and socket sets - kitchen drawer quality is fine.
Butane torch with bottle and Sharpie pens for annealling.
Metal carpenter squares and long metal rulers - my big yellow one from Walmart is five feet long and really useful.
Portable sawhorses - they fold up into the top for easy storage, are beefy enough for the job and I'm too lazy to make my own (35 bucks each)
Levels - long and short levels for checking if stuff is, well, level.
Those ratcheting box end wrenches from Sears. They seem like a rediculous luxury, but I love them. Should have bought two sets.
Cheapo plastic miter box for cutting straight.
Electric jig saw and a circular saw (you'll need them for cutting wood for the build table and jig stuff).
Bunch of wood screws for the jigs.
Conduit bending tool for bending tubes.
Safety wire twisty tool.
Yellow plastic angle measuring tool.
Sheet metal cutting shears (I also grabbed an electric one from Harbor Frieght when it was on sale).



Swagging tool and a go/no-go gauge. I got a standard one from Lowe's for around 50 bucks (I think), and the go/no-go gauge from Aircraft Spruce. No problems at all, and it's a helluvalot cheaper than a nicopress tool.

Paper cutting shear thingie machine. Thin aluminum is no problem for it, and one can get a straight cut no problem with no bends at the edge of the cut.

Sheet metal crimping tool. I think it was 20 bucks.



That's pretty much it. When Mr. Baslee advertises that his planes can be built in the space of a garage with normal hand tools, it's not puffery.

Frank Giger
12-18-2012, 01:39 PM
First rib went on the top wing!

As always, a comedy of errors with a happy ending - pics to follow.

Frank Giger
01-04-2013, 09:17 AM
Since there's frost on the ground and I'm a big wussie-wuss when it comes to the cold, I figured I'd catch up with some pics.

Here's the rib jig ready for coping:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib020.jpg

Here's the rib in the jig after the ends are coped. A few notes:

The bottom rib is dented to fit around the spar, as per Mr. Baslee's warning and suggestion. Just a little ball peen work on my tiny vise's flat side.
The paper cut outs for the gussets worked out really well; a paper pocketed folder gave its all for the aircraft.

I bent the first set using the brake, but found that it's soft enough to just use a bending/clamping tool for the second set which took much less time and gave the same result.

I riveted only one side of the rib at a time so it would fit into the spars!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib021.jpg

This is the two "anchor" ribs in place - one the aileron end of the bow and the other farthest towards the fuselage to lock down the bow.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib023.jpg

I had to do some stuff at the fuselage end. The gusset was interfering with the horn, and the rib itself was bumping against the nut holding the horn to the aileron control spar. A bit of trimming and a tiny offset fixed it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib024.jpg

The measurement lines on the spars are to ensure the ribs are at the right angle (7 degrees), each mark at a quarter inch. Don't trust your eyes unless you're at a compression strut!

One will also notice that the rear spar's measurements have been over-written. I had measured from the tip end of the spars and numbered, only to find they didn't match up at the compression strut!


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib025.jpg

Much angst at my end until I realized they're not the same length (as they are on the lower wing).

A quick look at the plans revealed this - the end rib is at the end of the leading spar but not at the end of the trailing one.

Our DAR says he can tell if a guy actually built his plane by the condition of the instructions (dirty, bent, written on, etc.). I think this one page will get me the 51% no problem!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib026.jpg

Frank Giger
01-04-2013, 09:20 AM
I've got some repairs to do to my work area as well. We had some high winds - 35 MPH gusting to 45 - and it did a number on my little tent/tarp:

Nothing some new tarps and some duct tape can't fix, though.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tarp01.jpg

Wife calls the flying helmet/goggles combo Santa brought as my "fidelity cap;" no way I could cheat on her wearing it:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/helmet01.jpg

I found the goggles online somewhere that are a bit too big but fit over glasses, which I most definately must wear.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/helmet02.jpg

(and since I have to work tonight, I'll wait to shave before I go in...otherwise I'll look like this at the end of the shift!)

Frank Giger
01-11-2013, 11:40 AM
Some pics and lessons learned:

With the weather improving (it's been stormy here for the last two weeks) I got into it for the last two days. A bit humid, though:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/humid.jpg

X marks the spot on the front and rear spars for the ribs. The long measuring marks I did were unnecessary, but somewhat helpful in understanding how the spars were set up of unequal lengths.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib027.jpg

It matches the X on the rear spar, natch. First lesson is to always affix the lower rib to the gusset on the jig - it is a huge pain in the back to lean over and put them in and it is easier to align things.
Note the long tail of the rib. This is another lesson in coping; I have had to strap a couple at the end over the bow due to not getting it quite right.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib028.jpg

Redneck solution!

I couldn't find a half inch hole saw anywhere locally, and it's a half inch rib going over a half inch bow. Hmmm, let's drill a hole using a 7/8" bit.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib029.jpg

Then carefully cut up both sides of the tube with some tin snips to as close to the center of the hole as I can get.

Cut the hole so that only one half of the tube is left. Check three times to see that one is cutting the right side!

A little ball peen hammer work to flatten it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib030.jpg

Adjust using sander to make the bottom of the circle more half inchish.

Check against a bit of half inch scrap in the jig.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib031.jpg

Seems to fit pretty good!

Frank Giger
01-11-2013, 11:41 AM
This is one of the ribs where it's only the top, and not the bottom, so we can just wrap around and tie back into the same rib.

But it works even "top and bottom."

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib035.jpg

Wrap, rivet, bend around to conform to the shape of the rib for neatness using some vice grips and a bit of scrap to keep from scratching the tube. A little sand paper deburred it nicely.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib036.jpg

Top right wing ribs in place. Still a few things to do, though.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib037.jpg

Lesson Two: Secure the rear spar rib gusset first. It decides the airfoil consistency along the wing. I've got one rib that's 3/8" higher than the others because I hadn't figured out the order of securing them (and that's mostly by luck). Hadn't decided if it's worth it to put more holes in the spar or not.

The ribs in the foreground are the "figure out" ribs. At the rear I've got to make a gusset or strap to the rib ends along the aileron side of the spar. I may just wind up running the strap - it's not sexy, but it has the fewest questions assigned to it.

I've got to file down the rear spar end to match the profile of the rib to the bow as well as do some "adjusting" of the front rib copes to the spar with a hammer (they won't lay perfectly, owing to the sweep) as well as think about putting on the leading edge.

I'll table the latter until both wings are done.

It started raining and I was just so happy to see the ribs on the wing that I didn't want to put it up in the storage shed just yet!

Frank Giger
01-26-2013, 06:44 PM
The little Nieuport's ribs at the aileron are quite a bit higher than it is, and so there was a "lightbulb" moment about what Robert Baslee was talking about on the phone with me about the long strip.

He had mentioned putting it at a 45-or-so degree angle. and at the time it didn't make a lot of sense (but I wrote it down anyway - I've learned to have a notepad handy before I dial him up; it would be embarrasing to have to call him twice with the same question!).

Quite a bit of measuring and hemming and hawing and I finally bit the bullet and cut an inch off the top ribs:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib038.jpg

(oh, and I was very pleased when the long ruler laid across the ribs evenly - across the wing I have one rib that's about 1/32" higher than the others, which I'm not going to fool with in fear of just making it worse. This good alignment was largely due to fortune more than planning; I only thought to check AFTER they were all in place!)

Little test piece of scrap for angle and length measurements, tacked with a strip of aluminum tape.

Why did I have aluminum tape so handy? I realized I only gap sealed the alieron hinges on one wing - the other one - and quickly fabricated them so I wouldn't forget again!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib039.jpg

Strip cut from the thick, harder stuff Robert supplied for the aileron leading edges that I gave up on. What's not shown is the cut outs for the aileron hinge and the full rib in the backgound.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib040.jpg

The light was starting to fade and the camera popped up the flash.

It's not really that wavy and crappy looking; indeed, it's some of my best bending work.

I'll make one more long one like this and two shorter ones (it doesn't reach all the way), following my "bend it all at the same time or really close together so it'll match" rule.

Didn't have time to rivet it to the ribs or the spar...

Frank Giger
01-28-2013, 06:41 PM
The nice thing about having a dumb night security guard job is that I get a lot of time to think about things.

I think those upper ribs were just made too short to begin with. My concerns is that in addition to drag, it's going to enhance adverse yaw (with the downward aileron having most of the bite) to where it's going to be even more of a handful to fly. No need to borrow trouble.

So I distilled the issue on the ribs down to its basics:

Problem:

Ribs are short and float above the spar.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib037.jpg

Solution one:

Make the rib slightly shorter and reduce the angle down to the aileron as much as possible. This method was my first approach, detailed earlier.

Solution two:

Make the rib longer to bring the airfoil down to the aileron across the spar.

Why not? Length is adjustable, after all, and I'm a damned expert at putting splices in bows thanks to my unique building style. ;)

So I did some quick and dirty work this afternoon:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib041.jpg

It's just a temp fitting using some scrap (loads of it at the right length) held with a bit of dowel and some tape.

Might as well extend it as far as I can and still allow full aileron motion if I'm going through the trouble.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib042.jpg

A bit of scrap to see how the gusset along the edge would be bent.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib043.jpg

I have to work out if it's extended too far, though, keeping covering in mind. I have to get an iron in there, after all.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib044.jpg

Naturally it's going to be a PITA to splice the little bits on, but thankfully there's only ten to do, including the other wing.

The lower ribs are not a problem - they match up pretty well and can get that strip very easily.

On another note, is anyone reading this, or is it just a vanity thread? If it is, I'll just stop adding to it.

Bill Ladd
01-29-2013, 06:15 AM
...is anyone reading this...?...

I am.

rv8bldr
01-29-2013, 08:31 AM
I am.

Yep, me too.

1684zach
01-29-2013, 09:02 AM
Yep, me too.
I as well. Keep up the good work!

Jim Hann
01-29-2013, 10:59 PM
On another note, is anyone reading this, or is it just a vanity thread? If it is, I'll just stop adding to it.
I am also reading it when on the forums, was off for a bit.

Chick
01-30-2013, 12:38 AM
I am enjoying it! I'm living my builders fantasy through you. Keep us posted and thanks.

flyboy_pete
02-01-2013, 09:24 PM
I am building a Graeme Lee designed Nieuport 11 and have been following your build with much interest. Keep it up as I have gleened much from your posts.
Cheers..............Pete from Australia

Frank Giger
02-02-2013, 11:23 PM
Thanks for your kind words!

Naturally, I was mucking around the wing after checking for damage due to the recent storms (a once tiny hole in my front tarp is now a huge one) and came up with option three.

I took that long gusset strip and turned it around to where the long part lay on the ribs, following the airfoil, and checked to see if the short end would hang down enough to meet the spar.....dangled if it didn't! So no goofy splicing required - I can go straight to the rib and get what I need for aerodynamics, strength and covering.

I guess once again it shows that when one is in doubt to just stop and think it through. Tough for a guy like me that never learned patience (there was a line to sign up for the class).

Pete, you'll note there are some differences between the Lee G plans and the Airdrome ones; Robert and Lee got along famously but each has a different approach to things. At any rate, I hope that by showing my mistakes you can avoid making them yourself. I'd also highly recommend emailing the Kansas City Dawn Patrol guys (easy google for their site; can't remember it offhand); they are tremendously willing to help out and can talk dummy if need be. Lord knows they know to speak slowly and use small words when I ask stuff of them.

Frank Giger
02-24-2013, 03:36 PM
Finally some decent weather, so I skipped some sleep and knocked out that top rib ending problem.

This is what an airfoil matching the aileron looks like with some landscaping fabric to sub in:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib045.jpg

And here's what it looks like "naked."

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib046.jpg

Note the large hole in the tarp behind the wing. That was a pinhole before the storms we had! I'm just amazed the whole thing is still there after 60 MPH gusts. I put another tarp on top of it; hopefully the old one will act like reinforcement for it.

Frank Giger
03-14-2013, 05:17 PM
Well, my poor little tent took one too many 60 MPH wind storms. I was warned:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tent02.JPG

Seams split right down the center of the roof!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tent01.JPG

Tools got a little more rusty, but other than that no damage to the plane or parts.

New tarp for the roof - thicker and slivered on one side, which will help once things start to warm up.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tent03.JPG

Flipped the wing over and put on the bottom gusset thingie:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib047.JPG

Done but for the leading edges, which I'm holding off on as A) I haven't built a rack to hang the wings on for storage and they'll just get banged up, and B) I HATE LEADING EDGES.

Left wing on sawhorses and the rear edge bow given the goofy bend to make up for the spacers in the aileron mounts.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rib048.JPG

This is where some idiot proofing came in handy. I had originally put it on the sawhorses the other way - and then spotted the big BOTTOM OF WING in big letters on the spar!

Whew boy, what fun words I would be able to say had I built two right wings!

1684zach
03-16-2013, 10:14 AM
Almost made two left wings myself before. Glad you caught it!

-Zach

Frank Giger
09-07-2013, 11:10 PM
Hmmm, I'm way behind on updating this thread!

So, both upper wings are done, less leading edges and center ribs.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ruw001.jpg

Time to return to the lower wings, now that it's cooled down to tolerable levels:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw028.jpg

This is one of the reasons to always bend duplicates at the same time. I had almost used this circular cut away to make the bend on the second bow...and then recalled that I actually used a conduit bender for it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw019.jpg

Much better! Looking at my photos of various Nieuports out there, I realized I needed to extend the bow beyond the rear spar to get a nice ending to the wing (this isn't clear in the plans).
To make the extension, eyeball measure and drill holes to match the angle in some extra tubing:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw020.jpg

I found I don't do any better by micro-measuring for this than just by marking by feel.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw021.jpg

Baslee method of annealing (red Sharpie FTW)

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw022.jpg

Frank Giger
09-07-2013, 11:11 PM
When the red is gone, the aluminum is annealed. Remember, kids, it's a lot hotter than it looks.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw023.jpg

One cube of ice and a bandaid later, cut it down to the holes.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw024.jpg

Insert a half inch drill bit into the hole and appy hammer gently.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw025.jpg

Cut, sand smooth, and test fit...holy smokes, it fit!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw026.jpg

In a rare piece of foresight, I actually wrote down the measurement of this semicircle wood for the top bend. Did both, natch.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw027.jpg

And here's the rib jig.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw029.jpg

I'm going to do all the rib gussets and cuts at once. Doing them one at a time took too long and was awkward.

Frank Giger
09-07-2013, 11:12 PM
Laying out the ribs, I noticed one of them wasn't the same. Dang it, missed one when we coped them back in Holden.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw030.jpg

Let's mark off where it should be coped.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw031.jpg

One could get a milling machine or fuss with a hole saw bit on the drill press...or one could notice that the belt sander has the same curve as the half-hole.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw032.jpg

Which one is the one I "sand coped?"

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw033.jpg

The one on the right!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw034.jpg

I'm down for a couple days with sinutistis.

Frank Giger
09-12-2013, 07:35 PM
I can definately say that building the plane was for education, as the top wings schooled me pretty good. A few things really were brought home:

1) Any task that needs repeating should be repeated. Right now. Things I did wrong on the upper wings:

a) Making gussets for each set of ribs as I put the ribs on. I had to recreate the template for them after the first set was destroyed in the storm that took out the roof of the WonderTent. And while the airfoil is consistent, this is as much by accident as it is by plan - I used a couple different techniques for getting them on.

b) Coping the ribs to fit the bow one at a time, just like the rib gussets.

c) Thinking in a linear manner instead of in two directions. I got in my head that ribs had to be one on top of the other, meeting at a single point on the rear bow. This is silly; as long as the airfoil shape is correct and consistent the air doesn't care if the upper and lower ribs meet side by side. And it will be invisible to the casual observer.

2) I know now why guys build more than one airplane! The first one is so one can learn how to build airplanes! :blush:

Anyhow, putting lessons into practice!

Holes drilled for coping the back of the rib.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw035.jpg

All ribs done and fit the jig!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw036.jpg

Templates for gussets sorted out.

A couple of things:

First, note the lower rib has two lines and a dented area at the rear (right) spar. This isn't because I'm a dummy; the Robert's N11 airfoil and the lower rib don't get along perfectly, and he had warned me that I needed to gently apply a ball peen hammer to them.

Second, when I bent the ribs back in Holden I didn't just pull down, but apparently pulled forward as well. There's a curve to the ribs which means that to fit the front coping right and have it smooth along the wing the rear gets elevated in the jig a little.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw037.jpg

Gussets traced and ready for cutting and bending. I had numbered them to ensure I had done enough of them (Robert included extras, and I also didn't want to do stuff I didn't need to).

Hilariously, I numbered them in a place that would be cut off from the gusset!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw038.jpg

All done. I bent two each of the gussets the other way, as invariably one has to have the things on the other side.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw039.jpg

Worked out the gusset blank for the rear of the bow to attach to the ribs; gonna draw, cut, sand, and pre-bend those tomorrow.

Frank Giger
09-14-2013, 07:18 PM
Time to break out the Light Aluminum Aircraft Gusset Shearing Assembly to get those rear bow rib gussets cut out.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw040.jpg

One can find them in the aviation section of office supply stores, and it works a champ at cutting thin sheet licky split.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw041.jpg

All sanded to smooth the rough edges and one test bent because I couldn't help it. Though it was quick work compared to cutting them by hand, making 36 of these things wasn't a lot of fun.

One might wonder what the water on the paper slicer is; it's sweat from the bill of my hat that rolled onto it, as I stayed out too long and it topped 100 degrees in the WonderTent.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw042.jpg

Making rib. Note that the top rib is riveted all the way through, but the lower one has only one driven. It acts like a hinge to keep it aligned. I put a rivet in the holes as I went as a poor man's cleco in the other holes.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw043.jpg

I took the jig spacers down and moved them to reverse the bows for the gussets that go "the other way." At the end of the wing the gussets have to be on the right, so the jig was reversed.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw044.jpg

All the ribs ready for mounting with the end bow gussets prepared.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw045.jpg

Now I just have to splice the end of the bows (I'll talk about that next time) and start putting them on.

Frank Giger
09-18-2013, 12:39 PM
It's my weekend, which means that I worked all last night but won't for the next two nights. Such is third shift...but I prepped yesterday by getting a little extra sleep so I could get cranking on the lower wings as soon as I got home!

First, a word on why I had to do some splicing. The plans show the end of the bow going right through the spar, and I had bent the bow and actually marked the spar for hole drilling.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw046.jpg

This is a case of there really needing to be some text with these plans. In doing the upper wings, I noticed that the spar is a big ol' blob between the last rib and the end bow. Mr. Baslee said I could file it down to get rid of this, but for the lower wings I stole from some pics of other's work and made a little extension so the bow will get enough angle to clear the spar:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw047.jpg

Unfortunately, moving the already bent bow out meant that it was now too short on the other end! One can't stretch tubing, but we can splice in an extension.
Took some scrap 1/4 inch tubing, cut it lengthwise, and then carefully crushed it down tightly so that it fits inside the bow and splice tightly. When one is a total meathead, making splices to fix broken stuff becomes an almost unwelcome skill.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw048.jpg

We can get away with this because it's 1/4 inch tubing - by the very nature of its fragile makeup, there's not much structural stress going to be put on it. And the splice is actually stiffer than the plain tubing.

Anyhow, mark center on the splint and where the end of it will be on the part to be splinted so we'll know where to rivet it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw049.jpg

I only riveted the bow side, as there's going to be a rib on the other end, which will be the other two for the added side. They're actually the same length with the splice.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw050.jpg

Leading edge spar where the bow comes into it. Only the first guide hole is drilled through the bow. The holes in the spar along the centerline are for a guide once we get ready to mount it.

Note the "A" on spar and bow. I had to do both at the same time to ensure consistency, but wasn't going to mount the long, fragile bows until I was ready to put ribs on them.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw051.jpg

Frank Giger
09-18-2013, 12:40 PM
Naturally since I elongated the total bow area, the second one (which didn't need a splice on the root end) had to have something added where it goes into the spar (on the other end).

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw052.jpg

Placing the ribs onto the wing was too easy!

Except where it wasn't. This is the root end, the last spar before the fuselage. It won't work, owing to the drag wires.

I'll have to figure something out - but it might not be a bad idea to wait until I do the intial wing mounting (interplane struts, locking down carry through positions, intial rigging) to place it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw053.jpg

Rather than agonize over this and spend a few days thinking about it, I'm just going to put that in the "known unknowns" column and put the rest of the ribs on.

I'll spare you the blow-by-blow and just tell you what I did. First I lined up the ribs on the marks I had made on the table (rather than going through the mess I did with the upper wings because I had forgotten to) and riveted the gussets on them (remember I had drilled the holes for the bottom rib but didn't rivet them).
I then mounted the front of the rib to the spar in a TLAR manner to the airfoil. The gussets are a little flexible and I could easily move the rear up or down to match the airfoil.

Starting with one of the double (top and bottom) ribs, I checked level of the spars and the bow, locked down the rear rib gusset to the spar when it met the bow, held in place with a little bungee.

Not a bad coping job on the end of the ribs, if I say so myself.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw054.jpg

Lots of double checking with that metal ruler along the airfoil, and then locked down the bow with those gussets I cut out for them.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw055.jpg

Lower wing done, less leading edge and the root end rib. My back was beginning to ache a bit from bending over and laying on the dirty concrete, so I figured I'd take a break.

I was shocked to see the clock in the WonderTent:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw056.jpg

Holy crap, I started with just spar assembly and the ribs and bow gussets at around 0830! I took me about half an hour per rib on the upper wings because I didn't do a proper prep job and basically did each one from soup to peanuts as they came along.

Frank Giger
09-19-2013, 12:04 PM
So today after dropping the kid off to school I cranked out the other wing.

From laying out ribs at around 0825:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw057.jpg

To done at 1035, including giving a tour of the plane to the handyman working on the neighbor's garage!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw058.jpg

This how you assemble the wings - NOT the way I did the uppers.

The handyman and I were confusing each other with our air compressors. His would start up and I'd go to check mine, as the hose was disconnected from the rivet gun at that time...and apparently he was doing the same with his when mine went off!

Tomorrow it's a little prep work and then initial fit of the wings onto the fuselage.

Frank Giger
09-20-2013, 03:36 PM
So today I couldn't help myself - I had to do a trial fit of the wings.

I knew things were going to be fun when I put down a little wedge to start the leveling process on my very unlevel yard:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg001.jpg

And was stunned to see:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg002.jpg

and

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg003.jpg

What the heck! Level? Put the little table we use when hanging out in the back yard under the tailwheel mount to level it that way. Probably will have to dink with this a alot:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg004.jpg

Immediately I found a problem. I mounted the inner rib on the top wings too close to the compression strut - this is where the front cabanes connect in!

Easy fix - just take out the rivets and move the front of the rib over a few inches to give it room.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg005.jpg

Since I don't have a roof to hang the wings from, I built a couple frames out of the build table supports and firmed them in place with guide wires.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg006.jpg

The cool thing is that there's a nice optical illusion going on. The frames are square - the ground is at a slant downwards!

Frank Giger
09-20-2013, 03:36 PM
Much fussing later, it all got level and lined up in all the right ways. And yes, the top wings are level!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg007.jpg

Yes, I climbed in and made airplane noises. :blush:

And then I took it all apart and put the bits to bed. Why?

First, the wire tangs on the wings and fuselage need brushing/sanding/painting to get rid of the rust before I swag cables through them.

Second, the top front gussets need some adjustment to allow for the wires to between the cabines to go straight.

Third, the bolts for the cabane wires have to have their holes enlarged.

But on the upside, I measured how much the carry-throughs need shimmed to lock them in place for the controls.

Frank Giger
09-27-2013, 06:21 AM
My poor roof tarp took a beating in the last thunderstorm series and got a little tear at the top middle seam at the back of the WonderTent.

Yesterday I check on it and it had grown all the way down it - sigh. So I spent the afternoon replacing it with a better fitting one; indeed, I doubled it by putting two on for a roof.

Sun really does a number on these tarps - I could easily put my finger through it! Doubling the tarps should help by having the bottom one keep some integrity, though it cuts a lot of sun from the inside. Tarp difficulties is the main reason one can see rust on most of my tools!

Frank Giger
09-27-2013, 06:28 PM
Lots of little stuff done in prep for re-mounting the wings, putting in the interplane struts, rigging, etc.

First up, the gussets at the front cabane were cut too close to allow for the cross wires to come up from underneath.

So drill a hole and make some lines.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg008.jpg

Cut with a dremel tool and file smooth:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg009.jpg

Next is all the bolts that hold the wires. The holes are too small for the wire and thimble. Enlarged them with a drill so they'll fit:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/wg010.jpg

...and a lot of other little stuff like painting and shimming the carry throughs, cleaning the floor, painting the rear cabane, and basically getting stuff prepped for the re-mount.

Frank Giger
04-16-2014, 08:02 AM
She's in rig!

It's been a tough winter for all of us, but with things improving she came out of the tent...

First, I need to back up a bit. One of the things I don't like is that the wires on the fuselage end go right onto the wing at the compression strut. I just had nightmares about trying to cover a wing with eight feet of wire attached at the inner compression strut, especially since my swagging tool (which I refer to as "that M-F'er") has a hard time fitting in tight spaces.
Yes, gentle reader, I have gone through many yards of wire and nicopress fittings due to the unforgiving go-nogo gauge to the point of embarrassment.
Here's my solution - two small extension plates made of mild steel for each end that will fit around the fixed mount and attach just like the turnbuckles.
I used one that I bought from Aircraft Spruce as a template.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rig004.jpg

All cut out and ready for some trim and drilling:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rig005.jpg

Ready for sand, prime and paint:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rig006.jpg

Each gets labeled on the aircraft with the appropriate mounting position. It worked really well and I couldn't find any extra play in the wires when I tried it both ways. Drilling in pairs ensured they were matches per wire.

So it was back out onto the grass under the frames I made from the boards for my build table, put into flying configuration, and leveled up. Mounting the wings was a fun thing by myself - my neighbor across from me, who has an unhindered view of my back yard, could be heard snickering at a couple places.
To ensure that things remain true, I double side taped some spirit levels to the wings. These were double checked from time to time to ensure the tape wasn't giving a false reading - but they were true the whole time:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rig001.jpg
The wings are held together using a thick aluminum plate that's bent to the required 14 degrees in the middle. This was a pain, as the bend needs to be centered. Again, the right curse words and they were locked down with a few bolts. It was nice to see the wing level over the joints.

The cabanes were easy as well. Using the Baslee "Just thread the bolt, mount the wires as tight as you can and then tighten the bolts" technique is genius.
Mounting the wing struts was surprisingly straight forward; I just put the lower wings on, checked the dihedral a couple thousand times, and propped the ends up with a lawn chair to hold them in place.

Then came the hell of wires. The video says to leave a couple threads on the turnbuckles, tighten as hard as one can, swag, and then tighten the turn buckles. This is both true and false. True in that it will make the wires tight enough.

False in that "as tight as one can" is subjective. Based on my anger level, I found I could put A LOT of tension on the wires to where it took the box of the wings into a trapezoid when tightened. One must think happy thoughts of circling clouds with the sun dappling on the river below; at least that worked okay for me. I pulled using a set of pliers and locked it down with some vise grips, then did the swag.

Also, order matters. Rear lower wing, rear upper wing (both sides), front lower wing, front upper wing - and she didn't warp up.
Suddenly, she's in rig as the light was fading!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rig008.jpg

Happiness is a spirit level on a wing showing a center bubble!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rig007.jpg

Loads more to do before she can get taken back apart, though. The wires need trimmed (I left the excess dangling), and with the upper wing mounted I can put in the aileron controls.
I didn't tell of all the hilarious errors, like crossing the wires the wrong way so that they bent around each other, getting it right and level to see that I had put the turnbuckle on the wrong end (do over!), or the hour I spend looking for the end of a turnbuckle in the grass (hint- they're ferrous and rare earth magnets are one's friend).

Frank Giger
04-22-2014, 07:56 AM
With the wings mounted and in rig, time for the controls (yea!):

The ailerons and the elevator are push-pull rods, with the control column being a tube supported by two bolts that go through the lower wing carry throughs.

The ends of the tube have these hand spun aluminum cups that fit into them. Naturally, they were just a few [censored] hairs too big to fit. So a little work with the sander to squeak them to fit:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr001.jpg


Almost a fit...just a touch more around...



http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr003.jpg



When they were to the point that they went in snug (and I mean snug!) I stopped.

For once I had the foresight to drill the holes and mount the hardware BEFORE attempting to size to fit. No way that nut is going on once the cup is in the tube!

Measuring the carry-through distances, I did some maths that were eventually ignored, as the cups add their own to the length.

And yes I know it's a French plane being built by an American, but my HB coffee mug is one of my favorites, and I don't mind the bier, either.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr002.jpg


Looks pretty good to me when it's in. The thickness of the walls of the cup weren't really compromised, and the whole thing to the dome of the cup goes in about two inches or so.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr004.jpg


To measure the length of the tube, I took a piece of wood, measured the 16" that are needed - center to center of the carry-throughs - drilled some holes and put bolts through them.

I mounted one end that's in the tube, mounted the other cup, and see how they lined up. Deep breath and cut.

Note the super crappy cheapo miter box; only way I can cut clean with a hacksaw, though once the build is done it's destined for the trash, as I've slowly taken it out of true by sawing through plastic as well as metal!


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr005.jpg


Remove the floor of the plane, drill holes at the mark (incredibly, I managed to make them both perfectly perpendicular to the frame and where I wanted them), and mount.



http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr006.jpg



A few notes:


The aileron control thingie needed minor work as well, as the hole in the center had to be enlarged. Robert changed the plans to a bigger tube for the controls but didn't change the hole in the control plates - no big deal, that's what hole saw sets are for! I just riveted them together and enlarged the holes for both as one piece. Then drilled out the rivets and enlarged those holes for the hardware at the end.

One of the plugs that fit into the tubes that go to the aileron (those silver bullet looking things) isn't threaded. I could fuss to Robert about it and get him to send me one that's threaded, but a tap costs 1.35 USD and I needed to order some tubing for the seat anyway - I'll just thread it myself.

The flooring is toast. It's 1/8" ash plywood, and after I bent it to fit went after it with spar varnish. Then I drilled holes to fit onto the frame. I did not then remove it and varnish the holes. Between the leaky tent and being in a few downpours outside, water managed to get into the core and warp it in some spots.

Lesson learned and not only do I have enough plywood left over to make a new one, I can do a better job since I now know how to measure and cut the floor piece. It weighs about a pound and a half and is near the CG point so I'm not worried about W&B; since I'm a little guy I can add a little weight. Plus it does look sexy, even on an uncovered frame!

[edit]

Oh, and I haven't locked down those cups to the tube yet - I wanted to make sure they were in the right place and fit before doing so. The whole thing will come out to get firmed up once I know where the aileron control will go on the control column....it's a custom fit job, after all.

Frank Giger
04-28-2014, 04:00 PM
Control column is mounted! It was easier than I thought it would be in some ways, much more difficult in others.



First, though, my hand tap drill for the mount piece for the aileron came in, and when they say "hand tap" they ain't joking. Aluminum is soft stuff, and I gingerly screwed it down into the piece using very little force with a pair of pliers to turn it.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr007.jpg


Happiness is a threaded AN4 bolt.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr008.jpg


The control stick is one inch aluminum; the control column is two inches. The gussets have to be bent to do the transition.


My poor breaker bar and set of plans have been toasted pretty good when the roofs to the Wonder Tent were torn off, letting in copious amounts of rain.


Note the scrap pieces used for measuring to see if I got it right.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr009.jpg



I'd like to say I really measured well and planned out the bends. Instead I just TLAR'd it with surprisingly good results. Very little tweaking with a ball peen hammer was required.



http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr010.jpg



This picture actually is more about getting the mounting gussets on opposite sides than fitting to the column. The piece of zip tie marks the top of the gusset on the bottom as a guide for when I set the top one.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr012.jpg


Moving onto the column proper, I did some subtle marking to show where the aileron horn should be on it.


This puts it both where there's a natural path for the horn to go up and down, but it will be right below the bend of my knee when I'm seated in the aircraft.



http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr011.jpg

Frank Giger
04-28-2014, 04:01 PM
Time to put it on the bench to work on it. I used that board I had drilled holes to fit with as a mount, clamped to the work table.



First I locked down the rear cap in the tube with an AN3 bolt - probably overbuild, but that's okay by me.


Next I locked down the aileron horn using AN3 bolts to mount to the column and big rivets for the rings to the aileron horns.



Then I leveled the horn and kept it in place using blocks and a drill battery.



http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr013.jpg


That 2x4 scrap is zip tied to the stick to keep it steady as I worked it into the right position, using a level to schmooz it into the right position.



http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr014.jpg


Then it was just a matter of drilling it forward enough so that the bolt goes through the column and the end cap for strength.


With a washer between the gussets and the column it all moves smoothly with no binding at all.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr015.jpg


Took it all apart, primed and painted, and then mounted on the aircraft.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr016.jpg



You'll note a few things:


1) I used a slightly longer bolt than in the plans and shimmed it up with washers to give the aileron horn a little more throw.
2) I bent the stick in two directions to move it back about an inch - it was a bit too far forward for my liking, but is more natural now. I just squatted with my feet on the carry throughs to use as a guide.
3) A bird landed on the wet paint on the forward end of the column and I had to make a bad thing worse by trying to fix it. Oh well, in order to see it one will have to be standing on their head when the plane is done.
4) With the column in place, the stick moving the horn and forwards and backwards and I seated in air in the right position, it was the first time I really made some good airplane noises and looked around for Jerry.

Frank Giger
04-28-2014, 04:03 PM
One other thing I did was work on the inner lower wing, or more specifically, the left one.


Following the plans, the rear bow doesn't come close to the fuselage, as shown on the right wing.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ilw001.jpg


I had put a splint into the bow on the left previously, and removed the temp plug I had put on it to check fitness.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ilw002.jpg


Trim a piece of scrap tubing, insert, and now it goes up to the fuselage.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ilw003.jpg


There's still a gap, but that's by design. I wanted some room for when I tape and cover the inner rib that I'll have to modify to fit over the lift tang later. Any gap I can fix with some tape after its mounted if it comes to that.


Oh, and I forgot to mention the crappy tarp under the fuselage. Mandatory if using little washers and bolts and stuff on the lawn.

planecrazzzy
05-04-2014, 05:47 PM
Good looking project... Since I've made a post... it should update me when you add to your Log...
.
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" the Flying Dogz
.
.

Frank Giger
05-04-2014, 08:54 PM
Thanks for your response! I worry sometimes that I'm engaging in narcissism rather than helping another builder by showing my mistakes!

A few words before I get into things:


1) My first approach of leveling the horn and locking the ailerons in neutral position was overly complex. Is the horn level? Will the rod clear the fuselage gusset at full deflection? Let's guess! Or not.
2) Putting the floor back on gave me a nice horn stop. Heck, it's the floor, and I don't want to go past that!
3) Full deflection up horn (down aileron) worked best, as it showed me I was clearing the gusset okay. Doing both with up horn at the limits of both makes it center well.
4) When I bent my control stick I also bent it sideways. Sigh. When the horn is level (ailerons at neutral) it's thirty degrees to the left. Oh well, that's why I bought a little extra 1" tubing when buying for the seat.
5) TLAR worked wonders for the two 45 degree bends. I think if I'd of tried to get too sexy with calculations I'd of messed them up.
6) My fears of rudder cable problems were for naught. I mounted the rudder and eyeballed where the pedals will be and at full slip the cable won't hit the horn.

I have to say I'm getting really excited about the build again, up from a "this is cool but frustrating" feeling I've had with all the rigging woes.

Okay, a few things about this next series of pics and narrative - there's a whole lot of stuff I did wrong and had to re-do. So pay attention if you're doing something similar, no need to repeat my boneheadedness.


I will have to say I was pretty upbeat, as my Tent Lizard made it through the winter and though he looked a little bummed that he didn't have the fuselage in the tent to crawl around on:


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/liz04.jpg


So the methodology was that I'd work from max down deflection on the aileron and the horn to equal things out.


First I elevated the horn and used some duct tape to hold it in place. Note that I've choked up on the aileron horn to give me more throw.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr020.jpg


Then I used the duct tape again, in a slightly different technique, to hold the horn down on the opposite side.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr021.jpg


Bend the tubing to match up to both, measure, and cut. In hindsight I got really lucky here. I didn't really measure it - I just eyeballed, went into the tent with the tubing and a conduit bender, made four bends looking to make both tubes the same, and came out to find it was just right.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr018.jpg


I took a break here, needing some water and to check on the wife, and when I came back forgot where I was in the order of things and almost had a heart attack - the right aileron rod is too short!


No, idiot, the horn is down on that side. It's supposed to be too short if the aileron horn is up and the control horn is down.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr017.jpg


Too easy to switch sides on where the roll of duct tape is to the other side, match it up, and make hole for the bolts.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr019.jpg


A quick word on drilling the bolt holes through the solid aluminum fitting thingies: it sucks. Loads of patience required as it's a long drill time and stress factor is high because one only gets one try.

Frank Giger
05-04-2014, 08:57 PM
This is control stick number two.

Remember the pic of me putting a 2x4 next to the stick with a level? Okay, that didn't work. It was a utter failure, and the stick was actually 35 degrees to the right of level.

I dinked with the stick itself, making it a bigger ugly mess than it already was and then realized that no matter how the stick was bent the darned thing was 30 degrees off and it needed to be no degrees off. I threw out the stick and made a new one with just one bend in it.

This was wrong as well, but we'll get back to that.

Anyhow, the solution, since I couldn't make another hole in the front of the column (they'd run too close together), was to remove the bolts that held the aileron horn in position to the column, rotate the stick to 90 degrees to level, make sure the ailerons were level, and re-drill them.

I should have waited to drill the holes for the stick until after the aileron control rods were done and I could confirm level.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr024.jpg


No pictures of that nutroll, as I was too busy fixing my mistakes and really excited about the next part.

Tailfeathers back on the bird! Wait, wait, wait: fuselage, wings in trim mounted, and tailfeathers....holy crap, it's an airplane!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr023.jpg

That thing with the terrible red line drawn on it is the elevator control rod. Optimally, one would put the hole through the elevator itself at a hinge, but it didn't work out that way for me - it just won't fit that way with the fuselage frame tubes.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr025.jpg

The problem with this 1" piece of tubing is that it is as long as 75% of the fuselage and it kinda bendy. I spoke to Mr. Baslee and he said it needs a bushing. Bushing...bushing....oh, another tube inside it. Well, I didn't get the C9 part, which is a three quarter inch tube about the same length as the aileron control rod, but I just happened to have some left over from when I got some for repairing my mistakes with the fuselage.

The problem was I had two pieces that were long enough - if I spliced them together.

Here they are laid out next to the aileron control rod.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr026.jpg

What I need is a long dowel to hold them together in the tube until I can get some rivets in them and to stiffen up where they meet.

They don't make a tube for that, but they make a three quarter inch dowel/stick/whatever it is supposed to be used for at the corner hardware store.

I just needed to sand it down a bunch a little at a time while making sure not to take too much off.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr027.jpg

That's the stick in one of the tubes up to where I stopped sanding. I needed a handle to rotate it on the sander, and the dowel for a splice was already too long at 24 inches.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr028.jpg

Pull it out and cut it with a hacksaw.

Frank Giger
05-04-2014, 08:59 PM
I used a little wood glue on one side to hold it steady for the push, using a mark to make sure it didn't shift.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr030.jpg


Fits perfect! Having to splice stuff far too much has made this easy stuff.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr031.jpg


Slide it in the tube, making sure it's not too far to either end to allow for the fittings.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr032.jpg


Let's get back to that control stick, shall we?


Well, that one bend stick is nice, but it won't work. The stick, at level where the hand is at is actually full up elevator (back) so there's no room for it to travel.


Meet my latest nightmares - thick walled 1" tubing and a conduit bender.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr033.jpg


I thought about scratching the idea of using tubing with two 45 degree bends and make one out of wood, but then got mad and just bent and cut some tubing, confirming it one the template I drew out for a wooden one.


It's an ugly sucker, but it's the right length and everything. I cut an angle at the bottom make sure it wouldn't interfere with the elevator mounting hardware.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr034.jpg


Rivet the stick to the control gussets, mount it to the column, bring it to 90 degrees, drill a hole in the elevator and mount that hardware, line up the elevator control rod, mark, cut, and done!


I didn't take pictures of me putting rivets in the elevator control rod to keep the inner tubes from shifting around or the hardware on the elevator end of things (which is weird, I was so happy to hit the cut on the mark I usually take a photo of stuff like that).

Frank Giger
05-04-2014, 09:01 PM
So, stick centered and the elevator is at neutral.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr035.jpg

Stick back and the elevator goes up!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr036.jpg

Stick forward and it goes down!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr038.jpg

I am pretty danged pleased with myself at this point, to be honest. Controls are in and work as advertised. The nice thing about using rods is that one just can't reverse the controls on anything.

And that ugly stick? Well, I wrapped it in twine because I happened to spot a spool of it I had under my workbench and thought it might look better that way. Pretty cool, huh?

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr037.jpg

Oh, note the three holes between the stick and the column. They're attempts to find the right spot that gave free movement through the fuselage. Lower is better - the seat height is dictated by the rod - and it turns out I could use the lowest one.

Naturally I had drilled it high to begin with, but I think I'll throw a bolt through it to make the assembly more robust.

pittsdriver3
05-06-2014, 06:23 AM
Frank a question. On your aileron control horns it looks like you there is a hole out on the end but you connected the control rods closer to the yoke. Is that in the plans or did you do that to get more aileron throw? Don

Frank Giger
05-06-2014, 08:22 AM
A bit of both.

The plans show a hole there, so I drilled one there when I as drilling the horns to fit the rod that the ailerons attach to. Mostly because making holes in the big aluminum part of the horns was puckerful - only one shot to get them right with no do-overs or fixes; the only solution is to get another horn! So because it was easy I did it as a sort of reward for myself.

Like a lot of the plans, the location of the hole wasn't mandated but a mark of minimum distance from the end for safety, a "no closer than this from the end."

Similarly, the location of the control horn on the column isn't given by measurement. It's implied that they're placed a bit forward of center by the drawing, so I starting looking at where it fit on the fuselage for ease of travel and would be under my knees when seated - largest allowable travel. The ailerons don't need any sort of stop when one is in the aircraft; legs will work fine for that. In the plans, for example, the aileron control rods have a part numbers for the tubes and attachments, a basic shape and "as required" written for lengths.

When I spoke to Mr. Baslee he confirmed that getting the most throw is more important than putting them at the end as pictured, so I choked them up on the horn.

The Airdrome Airplanes and the Graham Lee Nieuports are kind of odd in how each evolved as plans. The actual Nieuport 17 is really just a larger version of the Nieuport 11, with some refinements to allow for a larger engine and an interrupter gear for a machinegun, but they're really the same design. Mr. Lee started with the Nieuport 11 and has in his plans conversion measurements to make it larger to make it a Nieuport 17. Mr. Baslee started with the Nieuport 17 (he made four for the Flyboys movie) and downscaled measurements for the Nieuport 11.* Indeed, my plans have marked out measurements (N17) and N11 ones put above them.

In both cases there are a couple minor teething issues when scaling up or down, like where the hole goes on the horn. In the N17 there's more room for the throw and the arms on the control column are larger; I suspect the hole winds up on the end on them.

The Airdrome Airplanes planes aren't really kits. They're material supplies in basic lengths with the required hardware included and labeled; every tube must be bent and cut to fit (all tubing is a bit longer than required, with very few exceptions. If one had the plans and a material list it could be "plans built." Mr. Baslee won't sell just the plans and doesn't include the master materials list; it's a neat way to both protect intellectual property and put a couple more dollars in his pocket (but not much more; his markup on materials is around two percent overall, and in some cases comes out as less than retail on hardware, reflecting his purchases at wholesale). I don't think one could purchase a spun aluminum cowl for anything less than a third more of what he charges for it - he's shorted himself on the labor there!

* Mr. Baslee refused to make a Nieuport 11 kit while Mr. Lee was still alive out of professional courtesy and respect, which I think is a rare thing in business. Mr. Lee was in many ways a pioneer in tube-and-gusset design, and N11's built from his plans are in the air and proving how he made building a simple, light aircraft could be done by the average Joe using common garage tools.

Frank Giger
05-06-2014, 12:13 PM
That stick is going to be remade in wood, btw. It's too kinked up at the bends for comfort. It'll do for now, though.

Chugging along, I realized that the order is fuel tank and then seat, as if I put the seat in first I couldn't fit the tank through the hole and forward!


The fuel tank comes sealed with four fittings ready for drilling and mounting.


These are the bottom two, and the only ones I'll be making holes in.


This is upside down, of course, and the bottom will connect to a drainage line and the one closer to the tank will be the fuel line to the engine.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tank001.jpg


It's kind of a pucker drill, as one wants to make the hole without letting the bit run over to the threads. The key is to go slow - painfully slow - and let the bit do the all the work a teeny tiny slice at a time.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tank002.jpg


Rinsed out three times to ensure no shavings are in the tank and hang in place with some bungie cords. What's showing is the two fittings I won't be drilling; they're for running a tube from the tank through the instrument panel as a gas gauge.


I'm going to use a Champ like float gauge for fuel levels instead:


1) Running two more tubes from the tank is two more points of failure.
2) The bottom hole to the side is on the other side of these, and I want it pointing backwards towards me. I'm going to run a line back to the cockpit for a fuel cutoff valve.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tank003.jpg


I've decided to build a cage for the fuel cell to fit into, and pad it with some pipe insulation.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tank004.jpg


The problem is that this stuff is awful styrofoamy and will probably get fuel on it. The last thing I want is a bunch of plastic goo sticking to a gas tank that is now shifting around because it dissolved.

Time for some material testing. I cut off a couple sections of it and am letting it soak in gasoline. I figure by tomorrow morning I'll know if it dissolves or degrades in any way.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tank005.jpg

Frank Giger
05-06-2014, 12:35 PM
With foam deciding whether or not it's going to react to petroleum, might as well move onto the seat!

The bottom of the seat's measurements were a function of the distance between the rear of the cockpit and the rear carry-through, as well as the size of my butt. This is where being a 7/8 scale pilot lends a helping hand; it turns out it's about two inches shorter from front to back than a normal kitchen chair.

I used some poster board we had bought for my son's various school projects to make the templates. Hey, community colleges are much cheaper than four year universities and I need a seat for my airplane so it's a win-win as far as I can see.

It's not flat at the back, but that's okay as it's actually wider than I need and I fit on it well.

For the rear I used pictures from the original Nieuport plans supplied by a couple real replica experts as a guide, altering the measurements slightly to better fit the bottom of the seat.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat001.jpg

Refine the line to make curves from the measurements and cut.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat002.jpg

Fold it over on the center line, draw and cut for mirrored sides.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat003.jpg

Duct tape the back to the seat for a look. The top center of the back isn't flat because I folded it there, and I think I'll refine that initial curve downwards to be more gentle.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat004.jpg

Looks pretty good in the cockpit, though!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat005.jpg

A couple notes:

1) While I've seen a lot of great seats made from wood as it's supposed to be, I'll be making mine of sheet aluminum reinforced with tubing. It's lighter and much quicker (plus my wood working skills suck).
2) Don't tell my wife where her kitchen scissors went - she's been looking around for them for months now and I've been playing dumb.
3) My Harbor Freight big compass had fallen off the table and into the tarp I use for drainage. I can't believe that as rusted as it is the darned thing still moved freely.

And I have a new ritual of pre-flighting the aircraft every time I go out to work on it or are in the back yard goofing around. I found some paper wasps beginning a nest just inside the rear upper spar today. They're all dead and the nest was just the beginning mount and one cell, but sheesh. So now I will check every tube and opening on the plane for critters before I start any work.

planecrazzzy
05-06-2014, 01:33 PM
Think "Lumbar Support"....

The Plane I'm building... the Jegs seats have it...

But my first plane didn't... I added it later.

Those longer flights made me realize how much I needed it...

Here's how I did mine:

http://www.wingsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=4575

http://www.wingsforum.com/download/file.php?id=314
.
.
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" the Flying Dogz
.
.

.
http://www.wingsforum.com/download/file.php?id=218

Frank Giger
05-06-2014, 01:40 PM
Hey, that's dead sexy as a solution!

Chick
05-06-2014, 05:12 PM
Mr. Giger, I can't tell you how much I am enjoying your thread. I am building this plane with you, vicariously. Probably the only way I'll have the time or skills to do it! She is a beauty. Thank you for taking the time to post your work.

Frank Giger
05-08-2014, 06:00 AM
I'm much obliged by your kind words!

TBailey
05-08-2014, 05:36 PM
Hey Frank, me too! I just came back from Robert's shop last month. I had some business in Kansas City and couldn't pass up the opportunity. I've been following the Airdrome kits for some time and I was very close to pulling the trigger...then he introduced the SE5a. Be still me heart! Thank you for this photo journal. It is a great help and much appreciated. Please keep it going!

Frank Giger
05-08-2014, 06:58 PM
Yep, that SE5a looks a dream!

The builder's assist, known widely as the House of Pain, is not something to pass on. Even one day is like attending ten workshops on metal construction.

On to the seat...

So to bend the 3/4 inch tubing for the back of the seat I pulled out the Huffy Pro Bending Rig and gently went to work using the forward bending assembly (after removing the protective rubber gasket).

It's a little dimpled on the inside, but that won't be a problem.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat009.jpg

I annealed and flattened the edge of the tube around the back because I like annealing and pounding things flat and I wasn't confident on making the sharp bend on the mark required.

One inch tubing carried it forward to the end of the seat, which is actually a inch deeper than the paper template. I did a second set of measurements and that inch puts the end right over the carry through and really makes the seat more comfortable.

The side tube and the one on the front are coped to accept the one inch tube that will go down from the corner to the carry-through. A gusset will hold this to the seat when I get to that part.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat010.jpg

Support braces across the middle of the seat. The neat thing about doing this in sheet is that the seat itself is one big gusset.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat011.jpg

Here's the back template on the seat. Note that the ends don't go around the front (it's that inch I added).

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat012.jpg

So I just added some to the end and adjusted the curve to fit it on the sheet for the back. This is where that electric metal sheer comes into its own. Followed just outside the lines and sand it down to the right measurements and smoothness.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat013.jpg

From here I put a rivet in the center back, with it lowered a little more than an inch from the flat - but flush with the bottom in the front. This tilts the back from the seat to make it more comfortable.


I clamped it in the front after that first center rivet and alternated from one side to the other, working to the front. After I made the bend to the left and right sides of the seat and had a rivet in, I bent the front inwards to hold the seat cushion.

A couple more rivets (including pulling one in the front) and she's a seat!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat014.jpg

Frank Giger
05-08-2014, 07:12 PM
Having dropped the rear of the seat down to get my reclining angle, I had a lip of sheet hanging down.

Why didn't I trim this before I started riveting? I suck at measuring stuff like that out, and it was easier just to rivet the back to the seat following the natural curve and some spring clamps!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat015.jpg

Electric shear and some work on the sander cleaned it up nicely so that now the seat is flush across the bottom.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat016.jpg

Here it's sitting in the airplane with the front two one inch tubes (they're thick walled; I bought a length of it just for this purpose) fitted into the seat and cut to length to the carry through (and coped to fit it).

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat017.jpg

You'll note no holes in the back, which is how the N11 seat is in reality. I am passing them over, as this is sheet, not wood, and I could see bending it as I climbed in and out as holes would weaken it. Plus making borders around each one to keep from cutting myself on them (if I didn't put a kink in the metal to gouge me every time I sat in it).

What I'll do is cover the back in fabric on the inside and paint it on the backside. The seat itself will get a nice two inch thick piece of memory foam for me to sit on.

Gussets will firm up the supports front and back and a special gusset setup will hold the front ones to the carry-through.

You might notice a piece of twine over the aileron control thingie - it runs to the rudder. Incredibly, rudder cables are clear of all this stuff by my calculations!

Blue Chips
05-16-2014, 08:42 PM
I like that seat Frank, looks like it will work out great.

BTW, how did the foam/gas test end up?

Ken

Frank Giger
05-16-2014, 09:33 PM
Three days in gas and no change in structure or condition...it's a winner!

I finally got the chance to download and resize the photos from over the last couple of days - poor PC needed some new parts - so let's back up a bit before we get to today.


I had built the lower wings to how I interpreted the plans, which meant the rear bow was about six inches short from reaching the fuselage. Sigh.


Well, breaking long pieces of tubing I can't easily replace is something I do very well; the longer and harder to replace the more fun it is to do it. Expands the vocabulary and if one does it right the heart rate will accelerate and remain elevated for at least twenty minutes. Got to get that cardio workout one way or another, says I.


Anyhow, I'm sort of an expert on making splices in quarter inch tubing by now. This technique works really well on the little stuff, and I only splice on things that aren't load bearing.


First we need the replacement or additional piece and the piece used for the splint. I don't label stuff like "S" for splint and "E" for end piece for y'all's benefit; I idiot proof just about everything like that for my own needs.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/splint001.jpg


My technique which is only one way to do it, is to take a dremel tool cutting disk and put a cut along the length of the splice as straight as I can.


Then I use my tiny vise to crimp one side down a little bit so it's inside and then slowly rotate the whole thing and tighten it a smidgen, rotate it a bit and tighten a smidgen ad nauseum trying to keep it as round as possible.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/splint002.jpg


Do it slowly enough and it'll eventually just fit - I want it to be difficult to insert, but able to do so by hand.


Here's what it looks like in the tube.


I like the lip inside the splint as it gives it strength.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/splint003.jpg


I always make a mark at the halfway point of the splint so it's even between the two pieces and try to put the seam along the stress (so if it's up and down stress, the seam is on bottom or top) or away from where the rivets will go.


Ideally one would rivet in at least two places on different sides. For this little piece on the end of the bow where there's not a lot of stress, I'm only riveting on the inside because of covering.


But it's clean and neat and looks like this when the pieces are together.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/splint004.jpg


Now the bow reaches to the fuselage (less a little bit).


Note the inside rib didn't need a lot of adjustment.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw059.jpg


Here's something scary!


I was preparing to put the wings up after taking the plane apart and was shocked to see my "parts pile." That tubing is extra (it'll be used for mounting the fuel tank, the panel, firewall and the seat). The rest is sheeting and the cowl. Covering supplies are kept in the house for climate control and staying out of the dirt.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/sheeting.jpg

Frank Giger
05-16-2014, 09:44 PM
As I was taking apart the aircraft I at least had the presence of mind to label each wire at the lift tang I made and the lift tang on the fuselage.


It's numbers on the right side of the aircraft and letters on the left.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rig009.jpg


I also put another bolt to the left of the rear cabane mount. This hits the blade inside the wing and keeps in place. Aligning this sucker before I could put in the bolt holes was not fun. This little bolt is worth half an hour of messing it with again.


Oh, and I'm grabbing it like this because hanging on the side of the fuselage on one foot with a camera in one hand..


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rig010.jpg


Frowny face.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rig011.jpg


But I can't justify exposing the aircraft to weather and wildlife, so the wings had to come off and get put away.

Frank Giger
05-16-2014, 10:02 PM
Back to the seat...


After measuring and coping the front two tubes that go from seat to carry-through, I worked up some gussets to go on the seat end to keep the tubes up and down...


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat018.jpg


And then I started scratching my head. The tubes came down from the seat and matched the top of the carry through....and get held there by, um, magic I guess. Peter Pan used soap to reattach his shadow with mixed results, so that's out...


What I need is some tough gussets to hold it on the carry through. Something robust. And then I remembered I had a piece of quarter inch poplar board for another project I did (but never used).


A template from paper, a hole saw, a jig saw, and some sanding later...


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat019.jpg


Tada!


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat020.jpg


Two coats of urethane and one of Krylon and it sure looks pretty.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat021.jpg


Here's another view that shows the gussets from the start of this post mounted.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat022.jpg


She won't shift forwards or backwards, and won't come up once I'm in and seat belted in.

Lateral motion ain't gonna happen either once the rear supports are in...or it least if it is I will have much bigger problems than it shifting two inches one side or another.

pittsdriver3
05-17-2014, 06:44 AM
Frank, The seat should be bolted securely to the airframe. In a hard landing or some moderate turbulence I can see it shifting around or breaking your wood brackets. Don

Frank Giger
05-17-2014, 12:30 PM
Yep, you're right. I'll work up a secure mount to the carry through to lock it down.

I'm not so much worried about turbulence - I'm a very fair weather pilot and she's not much of a cross country bird, but hard landings are something I'm very familiar with!

:)

Thanks for keeping me straight- this is exactly why I put this thread up in the first place

Frank Giger
05-17-2014, 07:55 PM
Today I did a test for how to make the hole for the seatbelt in the sheet metal into something other than a slow razor blade. I bought some automotive door edge trim and after making a hole in some scrap worked to see if it is flexible enough to curve inside it.


It worked! As one can see, I cut it too short, which surprised me as I thought originally I had it overlapping.


Note the gusset there....it was one of the spare pieces that Robert threw into the kit. I think he knows a couple extra of them are needed for other stuff.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat023.jpg


Moving on to the seat, I annealed the end of some of my super thick one inch tubing, whacked on it with a ball peen hammer until the end was flat, bent it to match the bottom of the seat, and coped the other end to match the tubing at the fuselage joint.


Then I gusseted it in, measured where the bent part hit the tube of the seat, drilled a hole in the support tube, put the seat on it, marked the hole, removed and drilled the seat, and ran a bolt through it.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat024.jpg


On the left side I couldn't use a gusset like that, since it already had one there for the cross member of the fuselage, and the angles matched too closely to put rivets in.


But I had a nice three quarter inch tube gusseted in and seated well.


So I worked backwards after annealing and pounding the end flat and coping the other end to mate with the tubes. Drilling the flat end and then mounting it to the seat, I made sure it was tight to the tubing and took a deep breath.


I drilled a hole through the cross fuselage forward through the gusset and through the seat support tube in one go, somehow managing to hit center through both.


An AN-4 bolt from my random Bag of Stuff (I had purchased the "homebuilder's hardware assortment from Aircraft Spruce) fit pretty well with a couple washers and shazam, it's secure.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat025.jpg


I even managed to hit center both sides in the seat tube, and the AN3 bolt heads won't bother me a bit.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat026.jpg


Here's a view from the front; things are tight in the tent on the nose end, so it's hard to take good ones.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat027.jpg


I also drilled the holes in the back of the seat for the seatbelt to go through.

Frank Giger
05-17-2014, 08:00 PM
On to testing my work.


What I need is a real world sort of weight and test, simulating a pilot getting in by standing on it and then shifting down to sit on it and then move about.


My wife came into my work area and grabbed the camera as I performed the test.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat028.jpg


Any simulated airplane noises were entirely necessary for what I considered a very serious and grim task.

And yes it was a vital part of the test that I work my feet like there were pedals installed as I moved the stick about.

planecrazzzy
05-18-2014, 05:35 PM
.
Nothing Lighter than a HOLE !
.
Gotta Fly...3863

Frank Giger
05-19-2014, 07:50 PM
Holy holes, batman! That's actually a thing of beauty, but my seat weight is in ounces and the back sheet metal will be compromised and just warp a bunch with a lot of holes in it.

My seat was too high. The shoulder straps would have to bend up from the turtle deck mount and would be a question mark if the unfortunate happened. But I can't lower it with the elevator rod in its original position. The solution came from another WWI replica builder with the same problem. He simply moved the mount point for the elevator control rod to the end of the column, which lowered it quite a bit. I borrowed from him liberally, as I have no shame.

Okay, here's the quick and dirty of how I adapted Bill's excellent modification for my own benefit, which was actually pretty straight forward.


Moving the elevator control rod back over the rear carry through lowers the clearance quite a bit - note the seat supports (the unpainted tubes) are now far above the control rod.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr039.jpg


I had originally thought to use some big lift tangs, like Bill did, but they turned out to be too short for clearance; I think my aileron control horn sits higher than his.


But I had some extra blades used for the lower wing mounts, and they were more than longer enough (and quite thick and robust).


To keep them the same height as the control stick, I used the stick itself, drilling the hole for where it sits on the column and then using a AN3 pencil to mark where it hit the original elevator control rod mount point and drilling there.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr040.jpg


I used the piece of the elevator control rod that was cut off originally (never, ever throw anything out!) as it was the right thickness and length, drilled a couple holes in it and shazam! the control rod is on a hinge in a solid linkage.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr041.jpg


Trim, sand, and paint, and it looks beautiful.


What isn't shown is the fact that when I put that tube inside the elevator control rod as a sleeve I had riveted it in several places to make it to where it didn't slide around inside. So I drilled all those rivets, slid out the inner tube, measured it back, cut it to allow for the elevator control mount to slide in the main rod, and re-riveted it.


Then I cut the elevator control rod to fit after locking down the elevator in neutral position with a board and zip ties and putting the stick in center and re-drilled it. Amazingly I did all the above without messing it up.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr042.jpg


Here's the seat with the new configuration with the front legs on the floor board...it clears the elevator control rod with a little to spare at this height, lowering the seat about four and a half inches. A squat test on the carry throughs without the seat puts my shoulders right at the top of the turtle deck, which was the goal.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr043.jpg


Tomorrow I'll modify the seat to fit this, including mucking around with those rear supports - yea, more rivets to drill out - and hopefully finish it up.

Frank Giger
05-20-2014, 08:03 PM
Seat finally adjusted and fixed in place.


I removed the gussets holding the forward seat legs without incident, which really surprised me - not elongating a single hole after drilling out eleven rivets in a row is a new record for me.


From there is was simply a matter of measuring how much to cut off the front legs, re-cope them to fit the carry-through, and re-do the rear supports, moving them down a bit.


The last bit was much, much easier than I thought it would be. Not a lot of adjustment in coping the ends for a new angle to support moving it down, and it went too easily for my comfort.


Usually when things go smoothly it just means that I'm screwing up in a way that won't become apparent until I'm almost finished.


The problem of the front legs of the seat just resting on the carry through had to be solved as well, as they can't just rest on it. They need positive attachment.


My solution:


First I took some quarter inch tubing I had ordered back when I was scaring myself with some of the repairs I was making (about three more and I'd of run out of things to patch with), annealed it and pounded it into a strip. This gave me a nice thick piece of aluminum that was flexible and strong. For once my maths worked out and not only was it long enough, it came out at one inch across.


Then with a ball peen hammer, some thick PVC pipe and some colorful language I made it into a circle with tabs sticking up that were an inch apart.


I used a piece of scrap I took from Robert's after the HOP that matched the carry through and some one inch stock laying around as a guide:


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat030.jpg


Gussets to the front and side of the seat re-cut, holes drilled for the wooden "feet" (which, again went scarily well), wrap tight around the carry through and rivet:


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat031.jpg


Now I'm in a much better position when seated!


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat032.jpg



The wife came out back tonight to ask how long I'd be, to which I replied "as soon as you take another picture I'm done for the day."


"Good, I have a surprise for you!"


Having been married some twenty years now that could mean anything from the garbage disposal on fire to an invitation to some "special time." Today, however, it was a 7" Android tablet with built in GPS.


"Maybe you could put this in the airplane with one of those programs."


Man, did I ever talk the right one into becoming wed to me.

pittsdriver3
05-21-2014, 06:18 AM
I like your seat attach a LOT better now Frank. Don

Frank Giger
05-21-2014, 07:01 AM
Thanks for keeping me out of harm's way!

The seat is rock solid, but I think I'll put a reinforcing bar between the rear mount tubes just to beef it up. The front mounts worked out better than I thought they would, that's for sure.

Blue Chips
05-21-2014, 09:48 AM
Frank,
Your camera have a flash ? :D

pittsdriver3
05-22-2014, 06:20 AM
Thanks for keeping me out of harm's way!

The seat is rock solid, but I think I'll put a reinforcing bar between the rear mount tubes just to beef it up. The front mounts worked out better than I thought they would, that's for sure.

If it will clear the elevator linkage you might want to put two tubes from the seat to the middle of the cross tube to make a truss. Don

Frank Giger
05-23-2014, 09:03 AM
Hmmm, I'll look at it, but I don't know if that's just overbuilding for the sake of it.

Well, I'm moving on from the seat, as she's only needing the seat cushion, which I'll make on a rainy day in front of the TV.

But there were a few things to tidy up...

First I laid out some fabric on some plywood and traced loosely around the template for the back seat, making sure I went the extra length on the ends.

Good excuse to try out my Florian Shears I got for covering, and I'm glad I did. The thing is the cat's meow, but does need some getting used to.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat033.jpg

Some 77 spray cement and a little work with some scissors and she looks pretty good. This was actually a neat exercise as covering is coming up real soon and I got a feel for manipulating fabric to get all the creases and crap out of it as I worked the bends.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat034.jpg

And then I learned some chemistry. Just raw cotton is going to get dirty and yucky pretty quick (heck, I got some spots on it dirty just touching it with my working hands), so I Scotch Guarded the fabric for dirt resistance.

Scotch Guard and 77 adhesive use the same solvents.

Suddenly the fabric wasn't attached by anything but water adhesion. Gulp. Then it hit me that the glue isn't gone, but probably just in solution - if there was a reaction with the Scotch Guard I should have seen some change by color or participate (or smell or heat). So I simply smoothed the fabric down to the seat and waited. The solvents evaporated and the seat adhered to the fabric just as before.

Worked the automotive door trim around the edges and at the seat belt access holes and it looks okay to me.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/seat035.jpg

Back to the fuel tank! Coped the cross beams for the back of the tank and lined them up on a tight fit.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tank006.jpg

The center was a monster to get right for a smooth fit. Lots of fiddling work with the sander.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tank007.jpg

Big gussets left and right and now there's something for the tank to hang on!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tank008.jpg

To test the strength of this, since that's a kinda spider web junction, I stood on top of the cross members I put in. Not so much as a dip or bend. If it can take my ever growing mass, eleven or so gallons of gas won't be much of a strain.

Oh, and the foam that I soaked in gasoline? Four days submerged in petrol and no deformation or tackiness. It's a go!

Now I've got to work up a scheme for holding the tank up to the cross members front and back. I've got some ideas and will see today if they work.

planecrazzzy
05-23-2014, 01:31 PM
It's easy to sew upholstery with a regular sewing machine...

You need an upholstery needle and upholstery thread...

You may need to "Help" the sewing machine through thicker folds.
.

Frank Giger
05-23-2014, 03:31 PM
Very sexy. Since it's just a seat cushion I plan on just sewing mine from hand. It's two seams, after all. And I can't tell you how good it is to know folks are reading this thread to keep me straight. It may very well literally save my life.

Back to the work - I didn't want to waste y'all's time on my plan for mounting the tank in case it didn't work out.

But it did!

Okay, the notion struck me that I had made a strong strap for the forward seat mount out of tubing that I flattened, and the idea was a sound one for mounting the tank. After all, it's a metal strap like a lot of people use, and I'm too cheap to buy a metal strap stretcher and clamper for just one application.

So I flattened some tubing and took measurements as I went to go around the tank, bending at the corners:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tank009.jpg

The hook is for the rear tube; I had to make the other loop for the front in situ.

Here's the rear strap tightened up around the tube and riveted in. That's a curve in the strap you're seeing, as I learned that unless one hits the thing to be flattened from the top it'll do that. For the other I flipped the tube regularly when flattening to prevent this. But it's solid enough not to do over; if the tank suffers so much G that it straightens the wings have fallen off and it'll be the least of my concerns.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tank010.jpg

Here's the front of the tank where the strap goes around the tube.

I put some aluminum sheet between the strap and the tank for chafing prevention. I don't know if it's needed or not, but seemed like a good idea.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tank011.jpg

Once the straps were in place I put in the tube covers to help with vibration and to make things even tighter.

The funny thing is that I was originally concerned about the tank shifting left and right, but without the tube covers it's rock solid; I could probably do without the tube covers at all!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tank012.jpg

One thing that should be noted is that the tank Robert made is a bit dent-ish...maybe from the heat of welding? Anyhow, it took me a minute to figure out that it's not a perfect cube and has high and low spots on the sheeting that makes up the edges.

Anyhow, the tank is in!

Tomorrow is making a new floor, then securing the running plates for the rudder pedals and making the pedals themselves.

Frank Giger
05-26-2014, 08:50 PM
I figured that before I got too far ahead of myself I'd go ahead and replace that floor, as when I put in the plates to hold the rudder pedals it will be a PITA to take out and put another back in.


I opted for a different wood - the oak plywood I had before isn't that heavy, but the new one is even lighter. One can see the old one in the background.


This is after coat one of urethane varnish. Two more went on.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/floor001.jpg


The picture doesn't really show, but the back side of this stuff is primed flat wood, but I streaked it with the urethane to make it look like it has a grain.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/floor002.jpg


This is a view from the front looking at the bottom. This time I was smart to drill the holes first and then varnish, so they're resistant to moisture.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/floor003.jpg


It took a couple of days of putting the stuff on, letting it dry, sanding it, and repeating the process but now I can move on to putting in the pedal plates and then returning to the wings.

Blue Chips
05-26-2014, 09:19 PM
Frank,
That looks like it is going to be a blast to fly, are there many built like it?

Ken

Frank Giger
05-27-2014, 08:33 AM
I'm not sure at the exact number of Graham Lee Nieuport 11's are out there, but I'd say over 20, but that's just in the USA. Of the Airdrome Airplanes N11's, mine is number two.

On flying characteristics, the pilot reports all confirm they're fun to fly. Since they're representative aircraft, not replicas, lots of pilot friendly features are built in, namely a fatter airfoil, twin spars on the lower wings, gear moved back closer to the CG for easier ground handling, takeoffs and landings. Most have named the Champ as a good analog for how it performs.

With a few exceptions. First, it's ground trimmed, so no trim adjustments in the air. Second, with no vertical stabilizer it's very easy to get into uncoordinated flight while attempting straight and level flight.

From the KC Dawn Patrol page:


All its got is a full flying rudder which,since it's not fixed and just kinda floats in place, gives you no built-in directional stability at all. What do that mean? It means that if you relax pressure on the rudder bar while flying, the plane can go into a skid or slip without you knowing it. In fact, torque will automagically do it for you if you're not on the bar and ON THE BALL (so to speak.) We all swear that we've been able to hear that "click" when we really get outta whack in a turn and bury the ball on one side or the other of the tube. If you don't pay CONSTANT ATTENTION to that little booger... It'll quickly and without warning, sneak up and bite you right in the ass.

Here's the link with the full quote: http://www.kcdawnpatrol.org/questions.htm#Musings.....Deep Thoughts... and Advice....

Frank Giger
06-03-2014, 11:24 AM
After looking at a lot of different options, all miserable, at how to put in the center ribs on the wings, I opted to simply put them just out from where the rear cabane meets the rear wing spars. The middle 8" gap will be filled with sheeting as is done with the Graham Lee Nieuports.

Anyhow, here's the center ribs in place:


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/iw006.jpg


Way back when before I committed to the idea of building a plane, I bought the rudder ("ruder") kit from Airdrome and built what could possibly be the lowest grade of acceptable ever achieved in a part - if I had remembered to mount the horn for attaching the rudder cables to it.


I also had the Poly starter kit. I decided against the Poly system in favor of the Stewart system after reading the words "respirator," "gloves," and "hazard." But it did some with some fabric and tapes. Rather than digging into the Big Box of Covering Supplies, I figured I'd use that stuff (along with some of the water based glue Robert included) to learn something new.


It's not quite enough fabric to properly cover it, but the high points of going around tight curves and around tubing was what I was after.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr001.jpg


Here's the tubing with the glue on the insides of the rudder. The glue on the bottom gusset is one part stupid and one part realizing that the fabric won't go all the way round down there. I didn't need to go all the way across like that.


I used a Harbor Freight Special brush and wasn't really pleased with it. I dug into the giant Box of Stuff I have and went with a foam brush from there on out with much better results.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr002.jpg


Fabric worked into the initial glue by hand and a little iron magic, tacked with 200 degree little iron.


The lesson learned is that when going around bends that I was working too close to the tube with the iron to shrink the fabric slightly to make it tight. Backing off a bit to the excess and drawing the fabric there kept puckers to a minimum. I still have a couple, but they're tiny and wound up not really showing when the other side was put on.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr003.jpg


Flipping it over, I was pleasantly surprised to see it looked a lot better than I thought it would!


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr004.jpg


I put some passes at 250 degrees to take out the folds and tighten it slightly to make a smooth surface for the other side.


The piece of remaining fabric was too small to reach all the way across the rudder. I decided to truncate the covering to the main spar and cover around the big curve in the back.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr005.jpg

Frank Giger
06-03-2014, 11:38 AM
Driving on...

Here's the other side being glued on. Note the excess is wavy further in - nothing but one or two minor puckers past the glue line. I was pretty happy with myself.

However, I should have extended the glue on it just past the glue line on the other side's fabric for making a clean cut of the excess cloth when I was done.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr006.jpg

Here it is trimmed, but the fabric is still loose.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr007.jpg

I worked up to 300 degrees to make it tight. It's like magic watching the folds and stuff disappear.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr008.jpg

I put in an inspection ring and taped for the inclusion of some rivets. Why an inspection ring on a rudder? Because I'll be putting them on the wings and fuselage later on and needed to see the level of PITA involved. It's not a great job...I mucked around right after placing it and it's not as tight around the ring as I'd like.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr009.jpg

Putting the tape over the rivets was pretty straight forward.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr010.jpg

A couple notes:

1) I had bought the Stewart System instructional DVD set and aped what the man did on them as best I could. He proves that while the basics of covering really are pretty straight forward, to get really good requires practice.
2) I had covered my work table with a tarp over night, as my tent is getting leaky again. It was dirty, and even though I wiped down the table after removing it, I still got dirt on the fabric. So I'll be covering the table with something clean before covering from now on out.
3) I'm undecided on the edge tapes; I might put them on later, but it seems pretty straight forward and I don't want to dig into my supplies to practice with. Plus it's getting hot outside and I'm feeling lazy.

Frank Giger
06-10-2014, 12:00 PM
So the fabric is sealed using some exterior latex primer:


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr011.jpg


Finding the right mix of floteral and a dash of windshield wiper fluid was fairly easy, and only the first coat needed some light sanding. The others didn't and there isn't a trace of "orange peel" effect on it.


I'd of painted it to final coat but it's been raining and windy, meaning my tarp roof sheds little bits of fabric; hopefully the roof will last until I get back from Kansas, as it's beginning to fray with the thunderstorms.


One of the things I absolutely had to get done before the trip to Gardner, Kansas this weekend* was mounting the firewall so that I could get a template. Turns out it was a great idea done for a different reason! Here's the firewall on a big piece of cardboard:


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fw001.jpg


In figuring out where to drill the holes for the firewall it dawned on me that marking and fussing with a big metal sheet was a lot harder than working with a cardboard template - I could just punch holes in it with the scissors for where the engine mount bolts are.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fw002.jpg


Made for quick work!


Here's the firewall on with the engine mount over it.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fw003.jpg

* This weekend is a big airshow focusing on WWI replicas at Gardner, Kansas. Not only will it be a great time watching airplanes, it'll be a huge wealth of information on questions I have on how to do some stuff. The guys from Valley Engineering will be there as well, and I'll be negotiating a price on a FWF rig and ordering it from them.


With wind and rain picking up, I tabled mounting the firewall for when I get back.

Blue Chips
06-10-2014, 12:44 PM
Can you elaborate on this as to what you are referring too?

Finding the right mix of floteral and a dash of windshield wiper fluid was fairly easy, and only the first coat needed some light sanding. The others didn't and there isn't a trace of "orange peel" effect on it.

Thanks
Ken

Frank Giger
06-10-2014, 09:03 PM
Sure. If you walk up to a wall in your house that's painted, chances are it's not smooth, but has little ridges and valleys on it, kinda like the surface of an orange - hence the term "orange peel."

Floteral smooths out the paint so that it flows even and gets rid of brush and roller marks. The directions for it say 8 ounces for a gallon, but for the tiny amounts I was using it was some guesswork. I won't bother trying to describe the consistency, but it isn't hard to spot when it's right - it's just smoother than paint from the can.

The windshield fluid is a thinning agent, and I found that it wasn't that much to add to bring it down to a little more liquidy consistency. The idea is allow thin layers of paint that don't need sanding that are thick enough to seal the weave without saturating all the way through it.

Blue Chips
06-11-2014, 07:07 AM
Clear enough, thanks

Frank Giger
06-11-2014, 08:22 PM
While I might sound all expert-y, I watched all the Stuart System videos on YouTube, then ordered the DVD's, and watched the EAA webinar on it.

The webinar replay video:

http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=2735032127001

I'm not going for the high gloss he achieved - mine is a fake warbird - the techniques are exactly the same excepting for a bunch of the sanding....and I won't be shooting any of it with a gun.

Frank Giger
06-18-2014, 09:19 AM
Last weekend I went to Gardner, KS for the annual airshow that features WWI aircraft. First, how cool is an airshow just for WWI aircraft replicas? Second, if one shows up the day prior to the show on Friday the opportunity to help assemble the aircraft as they come off of trailers can't be missed. Everyone there is really friendly and happy to have a hand from another builder - we tend to understand how things go together, that fabric can be damaged with objects that can poke through them, and not to jumble bolts together randomly when helping taking them apart.

I also learned I had rigged my own plane incorrectly! So after coming home I got to work fixing it...naturally there was some drama involved.

First the plane had to come out of the tent and onto the grass for re-rigging.

I had the rear top landing wire coming from the first compression strut to the right of the aileron horn, as there's a lifting tang there and the plans are less than verbose on rigging points.

Not a problem, making steel lift tangs is nothing for Dixie Fabrication D'aéronefs!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rig012.jpg

The front flying wire was originally located at the forward carry-through because A) a lift tang shimmed it perfectly and B) since the rear one is at the carry-through (no other place to put it) it made sense.

Wrong. It goes forward, mounted on the bolt that holds the engine mount per Robert Baslee and Jeff Given' AA Nieuport 11.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rig013.jpg


There's a fifth wire per side that goes from the front of the aircraft to the interplane strut to reinforce the lower wing due to the sweep. It's not in the plans and served as a nice "oh by the way" bit of information while I was at Gardner. I can either make tangs or use the eye ended AN-4 bolts that I bought extra; I'm agnostic on either way to do it and haven't decided.

And then the hilarity set in, as I should have expected since rigging the right side went without a hitch - everything going smooth and the bubbles in the center.

I had put all my wires on small lift tangs to allow me to completely remove them; covering will be a lot easier that way, and I won't have wires dangling from the parts when disassembled. I had not, however, tightened the turnbuckles when I put them up in a nice set of coils.

Two of the barrels and forked ends came off in the twenty feet I carried them from hook on peg board to the chair I set them on. I found one pretty quickly, but the other remains at large.

When I was at B&B Aircraft supply in Gardner I bought some turnbuckles for that fifth wire, plus two more for either the rudder cables or whatever. Maybe I could use those spares...but alas, they're too small.

Quick call to Robert Baslee for the part number for the turnbuckle - this is day two of scouring the shed I stored the cables in and going over the grass with a magnet on my hands and knees like a mine sweeper - and he informed me of not only the part number (which he knew off the top of his head), but that I needed to use them on that fifth wire. He recommended calling B&B supply for them.

But I want it over nighted, so I fire up the Aircraft Spruce site and plug in the assembly number. Fifty five dollars each. Cripes! Time to pull out that B&B business card and order three of them for forty-eight dollars. Yep, I think I can wait until Friday or Saturday for them.

So there's some other stuff I'll be doing on the aircraft until then.

Frank Giger
06-21-2014, 09:18 AM
So the turnbuckles arrived and I jumped right into finishing the rigging. Left landing wire in place, and time to figure out how to make the lift tangs for that infamous fifth wire that goes from the front of the fuselage to the interwing strut mount.

Let's gather our supplies - steel for making the tangs, check. Wire? Check. Swag tool (known by other names, all unprintable)? Check. Swages? Uh, wait a second. I've got three in my little bag where I keep them. Start tearing through everything looking for that fourth one; darned things tend to get away. Maybe one is in the shed where I store all the aluminum parts for the aircraft.

The wife actually came into the backyard to bring me some water, and innocently asked "what's that for?" as a large diameter bit of tube that's two feet long rolls out from behind some plywood. She said it was scary to see me just stop, stare at it, and then go pale.

S21 is the label on the part. It goes into the main spar at the compression strut where the interwing struts go for reinforcement. If I've failed to install one of them, the whole wing - ribs, drag/anti-drag wires, compression struts, everything - will have to be taken apart. I had put on the build table each of them in a check list and made a mark as they went in to ensure I didn't forget them.

It's a slow march out to the aircraft, where I look down the spars.

One each in both spars for the left wing. Breathe, I tell myself, as I walk around the aircraft to the right wing, and peek with one eye down each spar.

One each in both spars - all four are in.

That darned Robert Baslee stuck an extra one into the kit materials; normally I sing his praises for putting in extra stuff in the materials kit, but that was just cruel. I called him about another question and mentioned that he was trying to kill me with good gestures, and we chuckled about it.

Anyhow, until I either poll my EAA Chapter members for a swage, find one hidden about, or knuckle down and order some, the wire thing is put on hold. Again.

Might as well cover the "real" rudder, the one I'm actually going to use on the aircraft. Breaking the seal on the bag that holds 32 yards of Ceconite was another building rite of passage. I decided to use the wrap method, since A) that way I can use the full with of the fabric with just one cut to the roll, and B) why not, the shape is amiable to it!

Pics either tomorrow or Monday, but I was very pleased with the first side's efforts. I made the tight ninety degree bend without so much as a pucker, though there is a tiny glue ridge underneath that won't show when the other fabric goes over it along with a tape. I even managed to make the cut in the fabric for the control horn in the right place! I won't say covering is fun, but it certainly is rewarding - instant visible results to one's work.

With the 1915cc VW engine and prop a couple months from delivery, I'm going to put covering as part of the build process, splitting the time in half.

planecrazzzy
06-23-2014, 06:36 PM
I don't know if you plan on putting the swirling "Engine Turning" in the Firewall or out side Cowl...

I have some examples ... I tried to explain how I did it...

(It's a PDF hidden at the bottom picture...)
.

Gotta Fly...

Another example on my First Plane.
.
http://www.wingsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=4466

Frank Giger
06-23-2014, 09:09 PM
Hey, that's sweet - I always wondered how that was done.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the cowl. It's got big spin marks, so polishing it down would be a long process; I like the burnished cowls I've seen, that's for sure.

Frank Giger
06-27-2014, 12:40 PM
While I wait for the custom made lift tangs for the infamous fifth wire to dry from their paint, might as well show off the rudder.


Apologies for the blue tint of the pics - the tent tarps make everything blue, and it was too light to make the flash go.


Laying out the rudder on the fabric - it was just right for folding over the rudder in one go, so I only needed to cut the end off.


Wrapping around the angled bottom and keeping the warp of the fabric horizontal and vertical to the top presented less of a challenge than I thought.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr012.jpg


Here's that 90 degree turn without a wrinkle or pucker. I would later ruin this with the nightmare of edging tapes, but not too bad.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr014.jpg


Some reinforcement where the rudder horn cuts through the fabric. Oddly enough, I cut the slit for the horn on the numbers, which I was sure I'd get wrong. The trick is to allow for the tenting of the fabric over the end of the top of the horn; in other words, TLAR method and don't think about it too much.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr015.jpg


I bought some of those covering rivets, which are much flatter on the top, and they worked better than the standard domed rivets. But I still got some tenting over them in the covering tape. I'd be super frustrated, but it seemed that most planes at Gardner had the same effect.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr016.jpg


This is the end of a long saga involving the fickle nature of painting tapes.


The sealing of the fabric with primer went really well, smooth as a baby's bottom. I painted the white center first, and when I pulled the tape up it made a really clean line.


Waiting overnight, I taped the sides of the white and painted the red and blue at the same time. Of course they both bled under the tape, particularly the red.


So I got some Frog tape and then re-edged it in white; it seemed to work better with me than the other colors - I think I got the mixture of floteral and windshield fluid more right with it than either the blue or red.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr017.jpg


I couldn't resist sticking it on the aircraft to see how it looked.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr018.jpg


On to that fifth wire on each wing later this afternoon.

Dave S
06-27-2014, 06:59 PM
Read through the whole thread! I am building my plane (Thatcher CX4) in a dirt-floored shed. Us shoestring fellers have it goin on!

Matt Gonitzke
06-27-2014, 07:05 PM
Rudder looks great! If you don't want to have to worry about paint bleeding under masking tape, use 3M Fine Line Vinyl tape. Expensive but it works. You get what you pay for with masking tape, as you may be noticing...:)

Frank Giger
06-27-2014, 07:45 PM
*Blush*

Thanks, y'all - it sure is nice to see a part taken to final, that's for sure. Makes me feel like I'm in the home stretch of the build. Loads to do yet, of course.

On to those infamous "fifth wires."


The problem is that when I put in the bolts that hold the interplane struts, I went pretty far down in the mount, where they're actually below the rib line. It's a good place to put them, if one doesn't know there's supposed to be a wire leading from the forward bolt on the wing to a tang where the gear are pinned into the longeron as an additional anti-drag wire on the lower wing.


A few options:


A) Run the wire down from the upper engine mount bolt. Tempting, but the point is that the wire is an anti-drag wire to the lower wing, holding it forward. Having it run up and forward from interplane struts changes the force line to where it's pulling the wing up as much as forward.


B) Put in another bolt higher up on the interplane strut mount and run the wire from there. It won't hurt anything and will just be another thing holding the strut in place.
So I went with option B. I had a couple extra AN4 bolts with one end as an eye and the slightly smaller turnbuckles I bought at B&B fit them like a dream.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rig014.jpg


For the fuselage end, I just made a lift tang out of some steel stock I made for the lift tangs on the wire, bent them to the right angle after putting holes in them, painted them for rust and dissimilar metal phobia prevention, and mounted them.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rig015.jpg


I was sort of concerned about pulling those bolts out, as the plane is resting on the gear. But they came out and went back in without a grumble....especially when I had a rubber mallet and a bit of wood to threaten some persuasion with.

Dave, it's both humbling and a point of pride when I visit other builds and see these immaculate workshops and hangars with all sorts of tools and machines without any rust or dirt on them. Humbling in that I think they can work faster than I can with all the room and organization space; a point of pride in that I'm managing with what I got.

Blue Chips
06-27-2014, 09:12 PM
That painted tail installed really begins to bring it all together, and looks great.

Frank Giger
06-28-2014, 10:23 AM
I've got to adjust the elevator control rod one more time, bringing the pivot point back by about six inches and lowering the rear of the seat by about three inches - it's canted forward a little and in flying position is uncomfortable - and then I can remove the horizontal stab and elevator for covering.

So there really is a point to climbing in the aircraft and making engine noises. Well, climbing in it, anyway.

The lower wings need leading edges and the left one the pitot & static probes mounted, as well as some bracing of the inner ribs to keep them from bending inwards during covering, and the upper wings need a lot of refinement.

At the rear of the ribs at the ailerons I made some angles out of sheet aluminum, and did a poor job of it. They're not only ugly, they're too flimsy to hold up to the tension of the fabric (something I learned on the rudder), especially if I ratchet up the heat on them.* So I'll take a cue from what I saw in Kansas and get some aluminum angle stock and replace the nightmare I made. I'm also going to extend the end bows on the upper wings as well as the ailerons. The transition from main spar to end bow is far too abrupt; not only is it ugly, it's actually blocking the ends of the aileron.

The options are to either cut back the spars to give them a taper to the end bow or to extend the end bows by about four or five inches and make a transition funnel like piece. Making any cut in the main spars, even at the end, seems like a bad idea to me, and I'm going to avoid it.

* The rudder fabric was taken up to 325 degrees instead of the full 350, as it's one big loop of quarter inch tubing - there's a lot of ultralight type covering practices used on this bird.

Chick
06-29-2014, 01:06 AM
I believe airplane noises are an integral and important part of any build!

Frank Giger
07-03-2014, 08:34 PM
Well, I did some of that today in a big way!

Let's build some rudder pedals!

I went with the pedals as per the plans versus a bar for a couple reasons - first, it's simpler.

But more importantly, they're humongerous pedals, and the only real Near Ground Loop I had was because my foot slipped off the Champ's pedals during a nasty gust just as I set down. I recovered it and didn't touch a wing to the ground, but there's no way that'll happen with these suckers.

Here's all the stuff one needs to make the pedals. The hammer isn't really needed, I just like having it handy to help with equipment attitude.

In the plans and in some kits there are two big holes cut out into the pedals, but mine didn't have them and I don't want them. I like to slide my whole foot on the floor to work the rudder, and don't want anything hanging it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr045.JPG

It's simplicity itself - five little tubes riveted to the sheet; four around the edges and one in the center. So I split the middle and drew a line with a pencil for that center tube. I even drilled the holes in the sheet first and then centered the tube on them to make sure I was on the mark.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr046.JPG

Ready to close up the second rudder! Measuring the center tube was good business - I just made a pencil mark and hit it without pulling a rivet!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr047.JPG

The important thing to remember was to drill and mount the connecting gusset for the rudder cable BEFORE putting on the other side!


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr048.JPG


Two rudder pedals done. The hinges that Robert included were pretty much standard door hinges, and they got wet during one of the times the roof to the wonder tent was ripped in two during a storm. They became two hunks of rust.

I got some beefy piano hinges, trimmed to length, and used them instead.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr049.JPG

Frank Giger
07-03-2014, 08:36 PM
The space between the rudder cables and the aileron control rods is tight - since the rods tend to rotate a bit and the pedals themselves are a bit off the wall of the fuselage the chance of wire rubbing tube is about 100 percent unless something is done about it.

This is the solution that Jeff Sikes used on his N11, based on input from Mr. Baslee. I like it because it's simple and it works! The cable moves freely in the tubing, and the aileron control rod smoothly moves against the plastic around the cable. I'm sure eventually they'll conspire to wear through the sheath, but it's right there in the cockpit for visual inspection and can be repaired easily.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr044.JPG

What I don't like about it is that it looks a bit too backyard engineered for my liking and has cable rubbing sheathing from the start, shortening its lifespan. I went in a little different direction on the same technique.

First, I acquired some copper pipe mounts. I then put a thick coat of that liquid rubber stuff on the insides. I did the same for the conduit mounts that hold my flooring on, and when I pulled a couple off to inspect when I replaced the flooring it was intact (after being on for a year and in all manner of weather!). The fuselage tubing is also painted, so the making of an unintentional battery isn't going to happen here. The tops were primed and then painted because I'm crazy that way.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr051.JPG

I put some nylon spacers over the ends of the tubing, securing them with super glue, and mounted them to the fuselage with the conduit mounts - the rear one is just past the back of the seat, and there's one midpoint between the ends just behind where the aileron rod meets it.

It's a slight brush on the plastic tube through the controls - probably wouldn't even hit the wire if all I had was the nylon guides at front and back - but I like the insurance.

There's a lot going on in this pic:

1) You can see the tube mounted and see how the wire goes through it, following the natural line of the cable.

2) You can see the square tube I put in for the elevator control.

3) The pedal is mounted to the floor plate. This is actually version one, since I measured placement without help, made a line for where it should go, and then put the rear of the hinge on it. Yep, it's about four inches too far back from the firewall for comfort. I could have left it if I wanted to fly with my knees bent, but too much time running (and a few injuries) in my youth would have me crying after about an hour in that position. I moved them using some tangs I made, and I'll show some pics of that tomorrow - I got into work mode and forgot to take pictures!
4) Spot the "well there's your problem" issue when I found that there wasn't any play in the cable back to the rudder all of a sudden after re-assembly. ;) I can't remember why I took it off and had to put it back on, but it was so funny to realize what I had done that I couldn't resist taking a picture.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr052.JPG

Here's the back end - I used some tangs and a bolt for the rudder end, stealing from what I saw at Gardner. This is a treat for disconnecting it.

What isn't shown is the swag thingie and a delron nylon spacer that's on that wire, the latter of which is needed for clearing the fuselage cleanly (it's actually shown, just covered in duct tape as temporary fixture). The former is for the tailwheel, which I'm going to just tag into the rudder cable.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr053.JPG

So rudder pedals and cables in. Man, talk about your serious sitting in the airplane, making noises, and doing some imaginary touch and goes.

Tomorrow I'll fix the tailwheel to the cables, put in some rudder stops, and contemplate taking it all apart. Maybe I'll leave it together until I mount the firewall (which is next after this).
I'll also take some better pics of the rudder cable sheathing and show how I moved the rudder pedals towards the firewall.

Frank Giger
07-04-2014, 03:34 PM
Happy 4th of July, y'all...

Just a little work today to finish up the tailwheel cables, then it's time to spend some time with the wife and son....kase spetzle for lunch, coffee cake, and then fireworks tonight.

Not to say it's been hot working on the plane, but the wife thought I got white paint on the hat they gave me for donating blood. Nope, that's salt, all the way at the top of the hat and on the bottom of the brim.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hat.jpg

This morning was relatively cool (mid 80's), and my lizard friend came out to inspect my work. He seemed to be okay with it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/liz_fence.jpg

On the tail wheel itself I used super magic shackles. I know they're super magic because they cost fifteen bucks a pop at B&B - I'd hate to think what they'd cost from Aircraft Spruce.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr054.jpg

Here's the solution to the tail wheel cables not working at all with the fuselage - there wasn't a place to mount them that wouldn't rub. Because I know there's going to be some friction, that's actually two nylon spacers, with an inner one superglued to an outer one. It's a half inch of nylon that the cable will have to saw through before hitting aluminum.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr055.jpg

Here's a better picture of the rudder pedal set up:

First, one can see the nylon/tube sleeve for the cable inside the cockpit fully, including how it looks on the far side.

Second, I had to move the pedals forward (towards the firewall), so I whipped up some aluminum tangs and ran them from the new position to the turnbuckle. This allowed me to also increase the resting angle of the pedals.

The distance is just right for me to either slide my heel forward to the base of the pedal and work my foot from the ankle, or, as I prefer, to put the balls of my feet on the pedals and slide my heels on the plate.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/ctr056.jpg

I actually managed to tie in the tail wheel with both the rudder and the wheel pointed in the same direction, which pleased me greatly. I used bungee cords to hold the pedals forward with tension on both sides of the rudder, making sure that they were equal and the rudder straight (neutral position). Then did the same with the wheel, locked down the wires with some vice grips, and swagged them about fifteen inches behind where that back nylon spacer is behind the seat.

I don't have a clue on how to put in the rudder stops. It may boil down to a block of wood bolted behind them on the plate.

Frank Giger
07-09-2014, 07:53 AM
Hmmm, I'm going to have to pull those rudder pedals out and replace the piano hinges with great big door hinges like what was included in the kit - they're flexing a bit, giving the pedal some twist when it's on the tail wheel. Seems like a bad point of failure in the making

Yesterday I took the wings off as well as the tail feathers, and the vertical stab and the elevator are prepped for cover. I need to back off from the pedals for a bit, as it's starting to piss me off and that's no way to build...and they need covering!

I took Ronny Bar's excellent profile of Count de Plandes Sioyes' Nieuport 11 - I wonder what he would think if he knew that when he landed behind the Hun lines his camouflaged-with-the-torch aircraft would become famous through time - and took samples of the colors at what I thought were representative, made solid sample squares, and printed them with our color printer. I'm off to the paint store later with the wife to match their standard colors against them, as she's better at it than I am.

I want to stay with their colors, as it'll be easier to get more that way if I need. I've had hit and miss luck on scanned colors being replicated. Nice thing about going to a dedicated paint store is that they also keep a record of what one bought by color, and all the colors are mixed by computer operated machines that measure the stuff. The "fill the tube by hand" method at WalMart for pigments is okay for painting a bathroom, but no so much for this by my reckoning.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/nie-11_1135_port.jpg

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/nie-11_1135_top.jpg
You'll note there are no roundels on the tops of the wings - in 1915 when the Nieuport 11 was first fielded they only put them on the bottoms in an effort to make their own troops from firing on them as they crossed the lines, particularly when returning from a fight where they were invariably at a much lower altitude than when they started the mission.

His work is outstanding! More of his stuff is here: http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/gallery/browseimages.php?c=2&userid=5391

planecrazzzy
07-11-2014, 01:46 PM
That'll be a cool paint job... Don't forget to mount a Machine Gun !!!
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Gotta Fly...
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Frank Giger
07-11-2014, 07:06 PM
While I'm not color blind, my wife has a better eye on matching them than I do so I took her with me to the paint store along with a printout of Ronny's profile with some color squares I had sampled from it...so not a lot of excuses around here for not driving on with it!

The numbers of tiny little wrinkles around bends keeps getting smaller and smaller. Neato.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr019.jpg

Vertical stab covered, taped, riveted, edge taped, and primed. It actually went quicker than with the rudder. Either I'm getting better at this or the piece was a lot simpler.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr020.jpg

The elevator was covered in record time, owing to it being really two pieces with simple curves.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr021.jpg

Here's it is covered, waiting for full tension, tapes, etc.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr022.jpg

I'll prime it and then join it back with the stab for painting, since the camo pattern flows from one to the other.

This is definitely "thirty foot" covering and painting, though. But I don't care, really, since it looks pretty darned good to me and does the job.

I haven't forgotten that machine gun! It's in a box waiting for finishing touches and installation of the strobe flash unit that will go in the front of it. Our very own rwanttaja made it for me - Ron's a prince that will be unable to pay for a beer around me.

pittsdriver3
07-12-2014, 06:29 AM
Are you rib stitching or riveting to attach the fabric to the ribs? Don

Frank Giger
07-12-2014, 09:11 AM
Rivets FTW. I splurged and got some of the really flat covering rivets which are the cat's meow. I'm following the standard distances for rib stitching, of course.

Frank Giger
07-17-2014, 06:57 AM
My take on CDL is more white than most; figure it's brand new and the dope hasn't had time to darken up too much, okay.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr023.jpg

Elevator ready for tapes. Worst part of covering, IMHO.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr024.jpg

With the elevator primed, it was time to put them together on the table.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr025.jpg

Here's how we did on color matching versus the printout of Ronny's profile. The brown is a little darker, owing to what we think is both the picture's simulated shine and the fact it came from a printer. The other two are spot on, though.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr026.jpg

A day later of putting down a thin layer, waiting, putting down another, etc., followed by some fussy painting using tape and brushes...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr027.jpg

And it was ready for edging around the sides in some nice Horizon Blue.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr028.jpg

As I said before, whomever came up with the bright idea to edge around in blue was either working for the Germans or SPAD; what a complete pain in the rear. Lots of fiddling with the edges with the corner of a foam brush re-working paint bleed - and I was using the "delicate" surface Frog tape.

Frank Giger
07-17-2014, 06:59 AM
I couldn't resist and put the tail feathers on the plane to see how it looked!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr031.jpg

The wife came out to see (okay, I dragged her into the back yard) and said it looked first rate.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cvr032.jpg

I can't say I'm displeased with the results. There's a lot of little things here and there that only I'll see, but that's to be expected on stuff like this, and I had to remind myself that at 60 MPH from 1,000 feet it'll look even better to everyone else.

Covering will get put on hold - I've still got some structural stuff to do, like once again mucking with the rudder pedals, some work on the wings, and the panel/sheeting.

Frank Giger
07-23-2014, 11:03 AM
A lot of times when building there is stuff to be done that doesn't warrant pictures and doesn't look like a lot is happening, but one just has to do it.

It includes revisiting things and correcting or improving them, which is where am at for this last week.

The piano hinges I used on the pedal just aren't robust enough for my liking. I was showing them off to the wife (poor thing, 90 degrees with 80% humidity and she's out there watching me move a rudder and making airplane noises - and didn't complain about it) and noticed they flexed on the hinge a little bit. Uh oh. Zero time on them and they flex, which means at some point they'll crack and fail....which is a very bad thing in a regular airplane, but in one without a vertical stabilizer simply disastrous. So out they came and big horking hinges put on - now they're rock solid, and I moved them closer by about half an inch, which is just right for me.

I had to remove the flooring so I can mount the firewall, and added a couple holes for bolting it to the frame - which meant I had to varnish the new holes. Failing to properly varnish the first one's mounting holes was how it got ruined and a second one made!

That and I cleaned up the disaster that is my work area!

pittsdriver3
07-24-2014, 06:39 AM
When I drill holes through plywood I step drill it to just undersize. I then soak the hole with thin cyanoacrylate glue. After it dries I drill it to size with a reamer. This really makes a strong crush proof hole and the bolt fits perfectly. I drill all the holes in anything I'm building undersize and use a reamer to finish. All the holes then line up perfectly with zero slop. Kind of anal but it doesn't take that much longer to do. I also line up all the crosses in all the phillips head screws so I probably belong in an institution. Don

Frank Giger
07-25-2014, 10:46 AM
You only need therapy if you line them up in places that aren't visible once assembled. Otherwise it's just a crazy attention to detail, not an insane one. :)

pittsdriver3
07-26-2014, 06:49 AM
You only need therapy if you line them up in places that aren't visible once assembled. Otherwise it's just a crazy attention to detail, not an insane one. :)

Call me crazy. I think it is an OCD thing I did it when I built the Super Cub and just automatically line everything up when I do the final assembly. Don

Frank Giger
07-26-2014, 08:23 AM
As long as they're tight enough when aligned I think it's actually kind of cool.

I think every builder has a bit of OCD, though. I was reinstalling my control column and lined up all the bolt heads to where they're level to the fuselage, so I guess I'm a bit crazy, too. It didn't take any effort to do so, so why not?

And yeah, I pulled my control column out and took it apart. The front bolt had the tiniest play in it, and that meant that either I hadn't torqued it tight enough or had failed to put washers behind the locking nut. Tiny play will either develop into a lot of play or elongate the hole in the aluminum cup the bolt goes through, and with controls "gooder enough" doesn't cut it. What a huge PITA - those aluminum cups are a super tight fit into the control tube and I wound up putting the bolt head on one end into my little vise, putting it on the floor, and jerking it out with a mighty tug. The other (the one with the loose bolt) had to be removed by putting a piece of tubing inside the control tube and whacking it on the table. Of course I had to take out the bolts that held the aileron control horn, which shifted them out of place when I did it...and then wrestle them back into position.

Turned out that I just hadn't torqued the nut enough. New nuts, of course, and I redid both of them since I could. Put some muscle into them and they're good now. I even managed to line up the holes so I didn't have to re-drill the cups.

Frank Giger
08-09-2014, 06:47 AM
Since I'm still kicking gravel and mulling over how to do those rudder stops, I've fallen back to my method of keeping the build going when hitting a road block - work on something else.

My very crappy attempts at making the leading edges to the ailerons are documented ad naseum earlier in the thread, an the prospect of of having to wrestle with short sections of T6 sheet on the wings was too depressing to contemplate. Like most problems in life, the solution was more money.* I bit the bullet and bought a 20 foot length of 12" wide T3 aluminum leading edge material, but just one, as if it turned out to be as disastrous my efforts with the other stuff I'd only be out a little more money rather than a lot.

Since I don't have anything to roll a sheet that long, Plan A was to:

1. Measure to center and rivet the edge to the top ribs, starting at the top (closest to the center of the wing), going across, and then work my way down it to the spar.
2. Then I'd put rivets on the center of the spar to start the curve really going.
3. Flip the wing over and, using a long board clamped to the end of the sheet, bend the leading edge down, clamping it to the ribs.
4. Rivet the leading edge to the bottom ribs, starting from the spar and working my way up (er, in).
5. Once it was locked in place, remove the board and complete the bend.
6. Trim the ends of the leading edge.
7. ???
8. Profit.

Plan B was to fall to my knees at the next EAA Chapter meeting and beg for mercy.

Plan A worked! I'll put some pics up later, but the results weren't bad....none of the few "smiles" will show when covered, and it's consistent along the wing. I cut a "window" in the leading edge for the forward lift tang and the wire by drilling holes in the corners of my square and cutting the lines between them with a dremel tool cutting wheel.

T3 is fine stuff.

I also found a new way to leak the red stuff. I had the bright idea of wearing shorts when working on the aircraft, as it's still pretty hot here in Alabama. Shavings from drilling then fell into the top of my shoes, where they neatly stood in my socks pointy ends level to the ground, which means I had a lot of little aluminum needles sticking into my ankle. Move around enough and they'll cut one enough to bleed, and hurt about like a yellow jacket sting.

Anyhow, I prepped the wing for covering. One of the things I learned in the tailfeathers is that if you think a piece might need some cloth tape on it, it needs some cloth tape on it. Measured and cut the fabric - lucky me, the lower wings are narrow enough that one piece will wrap around the whole thing.

* Thing problems. People problems aren't always solved by more money; indeed, sometimes more money only makes them worse.

planecrazzzy
08-10-2014, 04:54 PM
I ran into this problem before I bought my English Wheel...

Changing the Big steel wheel with a Rubber wheel would curve your leading edge...

Whatever the length...
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Since I didn't have the English wheel yet...

I did it the way you mentioned...
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(Page two)
http://www.wingsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=320&t=15970

4105


English Wheel Modification
http://www.wingsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=325&t=23279
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Gotta Fly...
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Frank Giger
08-11-2014, 08:17 PM
Hey, that's pretty sexy...and it looks perfect!

My way was a lot less sophisticated.

So here's some pictures of how I put on a leading edge!

First I took some time to get all the crap off the floor to give me some trip-free space to work in, and cut the leading edge material with some overlap on the ends.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw060.jpg

I started on the top of the wing, riveting first across the top and working my way down.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw061.jpg

I took a long board and used a lot more clamps than this pic shows to keep it in place on the leading edge material and bent it over.
I initially thought I might bend it off of the wing, but starting making "smiles" and dents in it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw062.jpg

Tada! Okay, that sounds flip; it took an afternoon of sweating and going slow to make sure it was tight all the way across.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw063.jpg

When it doubt, put tape on it! Note the window in the leading edge. That's where the lift tang for the forward landing wire is.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw064.jpg

The lower wings aren't very wide, and one piece of fabric folded over it with plenty to spare. I decide to use the "blanket" method with just glue at the trailing edge.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw065.jpg

Frank Giger
08-11-2014, 08:33 PM
Either this piece was waaaayyy easier due to the lack of complex curves or I'm getting better at this covering stuff!

I started at the bottom of the wing. That way the seam is from going over the top and is underneath on the trailing edge. The less I show of my edging tapes the better!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw066.jpg

I took up the slack and held it in place with some clamps and then flipped it over.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw067.jpg

To make it look perfect, one draws a perfect half inch perimeter around the edge and keeps the glue perfectly inside it.

I've given up on perfect. I used the width of the brush as my guide with better results than when I try to stay in the lines.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw068.jpg

So I pulled up the slack again and used some clamps to keep some tension up. Once I ran an iron over the material to make a "glue clamp" they were ejected from the piece to become trip hazards.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw069.jpg

All glued and tensioned!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw070.jpg

I did paint the interplane strut mount before covering (that's why it's Horizon Blue in this picture but not the others) and put a reinforcing patch around it with some stiffening material before putting the heat to the fabric.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw071.jpg

To make sure I didn't warp the wing, I shrank it in rib sections on both sides, standing it up on the leading edge and hopping from one side of the wing to the other.

The kinda cool thing about doing it this way is that I think I had some room for error. I couldn't see any evidence of it (the fabric threads are straight along the wing), but I think there was a chance for it to shift and slide along the leading edge, since it's only held together at the trailing edge.

Tomorrow is rivet tape, rivets, and edging tapes. Man, I hate edging tapes.

But maybe I can knock that out in the morning and prime it for paint in the afternoon!

Frank Giger
08-14-2014, 05:19 PM
I won't bother y'all with pics of priming the wing; let's just hop to the good stuff.

Top of wing done.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw072.jpg

Here's what I call the "sunshine test." Working in the somewhat blue indirect light of the tarp tent, sometimes colors details can get lost - plus it's often hard to inspect when a piece is flat and one is so close to it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw073.jpg

So this morning it was time to do the bottom of the wing. It had already been painted my pale CDL over primer, so I'll be adding a bit more to clean up the color from the top of the wing, and putting blue around three of the edges.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw074.jpg

I got some of that wavy edging tape for the front of the wing because I'm lazy and couldn't think of a good way of doing it otherwise.

Note that I haven't cut out the ends of the spars or the slit on the top of the wing in front of the rear spar where the flying wire attaches. I'm slow but I catch on...I shouldn't have cut out the spots with the lift tangs near the interplane strut mount. It worked out okay, but would have been easier if I didn't have to tape the lift tangs and paint around a friggin' hole.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw075.jpg

Behold the Thirty Foot Roundel.

Looks pretty good from here, right? I know, real craftsmanship!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw076.jpg

It actually doesn't look half bad close up, and this in direct sunshine. There was a super secret technique to getting those red border edges cleaned up that I will not reveal.

And oh, I dug up my big ol' Harbor Freight compass, drew circles, and free handed that darned thing using foam brushes. Impressed? You ought to have seen those paint-by-numbers clowns I did as a kid.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw077.jpg

Frank Giger
08-28-2014, 04:11 PM
So I had to order more leading edge material and some covering rivets, which I found at a company for half of what AS asked for them. Shipping took longer, but turning a hundred dollar invoice into a fifty dollar one was worth waiting a few days.

In the meantime there was still work that could get done, like cutting out the panel mount and tightening some things on the "as there is time" list.

Here's the gear all painted and pretty:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu042.jpg

Everything I needed arrived, so here's an upper wing pretty and prepped to be covered and made more pretty:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw021.jpg

:)

Gonna cover that sucker tomorrow and bring it to primed.

Frank Giger
08-29-2014, 06:10 PM
Woohoo, it was hot today!

I got into covering the wing and forgot to take pictures!

Needs final tension, tapes, and rivets:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw022.jpg

I must say this is one day I'm sort of pleased with myself on the job, especially since all the sins of that aileron leading edge were disguised by covering!

Frank Giger
08-30-2014, 06:56 AM
I guess a few notes on covering the upper wing are in order, as I was kind of rushed in putting the picture up:

1) Obviously I couldn't "wrap" the wing with one piece of fabric, so that's two pieces, a top and a bottom. In a lot of ways it's actually easier to work with one piece per side, as one is only worried about pulling up slack on one side versus making sure it's as tight as one can have by hand on both.

2) While one can cover using any technique one pleases on an experimental, I followed standard STC guidance as if covering a Champ or other certified aircraft such as a minimum four inch overlap on the leading edge. I came out at around four and a half inches owing to how the fabric laid and my sloppy glue lines.

:eek:

The trailing edge is a three inch glue weld, give or take a quarter inch extra.

3) The picture shows what looks like a very ugly glue line, and it is ugly. However, what I learned from the lower wing is that as long as there isn't a glue ridge it is really a waste of time to try and be clean - especially since a finishing tape is going over it. Even then, so long as one wipes up excess so that there's no clumps or ridges the glue just acts as sealer to the fabric.

One of the real upsides to using latex paint is that ugly glue lines vanish under the primer, and by color is completely overstated by my why-bother-sanding orange peel effect.

;)

4) Removing the ugly strips of aluminum right before the aileron was a good call. The ribs at the rear of the wing before it caused no problems in covering, and now the air flows to the control surface unimpeded. In fact, the leading edge of the aileron sticks up a bit from the rear spar of the wing, and lends itself well to some sealing tape if I decide to use it.

5) I was careful in trimming to fit the wing itself and had enough to do the aileron; one more advantage to 7/8 scale!

Frank Giger
09-02-2014, 07:47 AM
Edging tapes and final tension applied - rivets and tape today, and maybe some primer!

Frank Giger
09-02-2014, 06:17 PM
My wing had a bad case of porcupine syndrome:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw023.jpg

But I made it all better with some blue medicine and bandages
.
http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw024.jpg



Prime and paint tomorrow. I didn't want to start this afternoon and run out of daylight; better to give myself the whole day and get it done all at once.

Frank Giger
09-04-2014, 09:04 PM
Work goes apace!

Top of the wing done, less making the cuts on the end of the wing so I can have a way to get the inevitable dropped nut.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw025.jpg


Bottom of the wing painted in my very pale CDL. Forward tape removed to show my patented wavy transition, edge tapes are still in place for the blue trim to be painted tomorrow morning, along with the roundel, as well as the cuts for the lift tangs for the flying wires and interplane struts.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw026.jpg

I also made a training aid for my class at the next EAA chapter meeting on how to paint with latex. I'll take a photo of it tomorrow, but basically I took a long picture frame, covered it, and painted it from primer to final coat, taping off each section to show how it looks and progresses, with one end raw, unpainted fabric. I'm glad to have something to contribute to the chapter, as it's been nothing but me getting help and learning stuff!

Plus it's not fair to rely on just a couple guys to have something to show and learn about each meeting! That and I learned long ago that one can't gripe about boring classes without stepping up to the plate and try to keep things interesting.

Frank Giger
09-05-2014, 03:56 PM
On positioning the roundel, one look at the Ronny Bar profile and I knew the 7/8th scaling of my aircraft wouldn't allow for such a large roundel, so I figured I'd have the roundels in position relative to each other instead.


So I pulled out the lower wing I had done - 50-50 chance I had done the same side of the aircraft fell in my favor, as I grabbed both wings at random from the stack of four when covering - and laid it on top of the upper wing. I put a ruler under the roundel's outer edge, lifted the lower wing off of the upper one, made a pencil mark, and drew some circles.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw027.jpg


It looks too far inboard of the wingtip; I'll have to see when the others are covered and I mount them just to see how it looks. In fact, I think I'll hold up on the right upper roundel until I do just that.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw028.jpg


Definitely a 30 foot roundel, but at this angle one can see the blue trim turned out just fine.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw029.jpg


Upper part of the wing in the "sunshine test." The colors really do pop a little too much but look great in shade!


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw030.jpg


Oh, and here's something I worked up for this month's EAA chapter meeting:


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/eaa001.jpg


I monkeyed with the saturations and contrast of the pic, but it just wasn't amiable to being taken in direct sunlight.


I volunteered to give a short presentation on painting with latex since I'm the only one doing it (or has done it) and like all chapters we have to stop relying on the same couple of guys coming up with stuff every month.


Anyhow, the left is raw fabric, and along the bottom there are two squares and a big rectangle showing first, second, and third coats of primer. Above that is two squares and a rectangle going the other way showing first, second, and third coats of color. And yes, that's a cheap picture frame covered with scrap and not tightened too very much.


:)


[edit] The more I look at that roundel the more I think I'm going to have to move it outwards by it's own diameter. Dammit.

Frank Giger
09-06-2014, 06:53 AM
Oh for the love of Pete, that roundel gets painted over on Monday - it's supposed to extend over to the aileron, which is why it looks so wrong....it's too small by a third!

Frank Giger
09-08-2014, 02:47 PM
Moving on to the roundel, which was too small!

Double checking my maths, the first two circles were by compass and the outer one with some safety wire connected to a screw taped down and a pencil at the other.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw032.jpg

Looks like the 1960's mod version of a roundel, but blue and red done.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw033.jpg

White center in and off white underbelly trimmed around the red.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw034.jpg

Like everything that's large one works on very close to, it is never entirely clear on the effort until one can back off of it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw035.jpg

Not too shabby if one stays six paces from the aircraft!

Frank Giger
09-16-2014, 11:07 AM
Just got finished putting the leading edge onto the other upper wing. It went a little less smoothly than the other one - I think I got a little over confident and rushed a bit.

Anyhow, it's all taped up and after I drill the ribs and clean her up it's time once again to cover.

Frank Giger
09-17-2014, 09:53 PM
Other upper wing covered, so tomorrow it's put final tension, rivets and tapes on her, then start painting Friday!

Frank Giger
09-25-2014, 05:12 PM
Work goes apace..

Momma Lizard is here to watch over my work:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/liz06.jpg

She's raising a pretty big family - I spotted three other lizards in the course of the day, and a couple weeks ago my son caught one no bigger than a quarter.

So the upper part of the wing was painted yesterday, and it dawned on me that I need my wavy transition from color to ecru to match from wing to wing - it wouldn't do to have one start a half an inch off of the other.

The solution was to pull the other wing out and stick them together. Naturally I had to see what they'd look like from the top:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw037.jpg

Before flipping it over and lining up the tape at the leading edge for the other:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uw038.jpg

She's all edged up and ready for the roundel tomorrow...

Frank Giger
09-29-2014, 01:40 PM
Roundel is on the other wing, finished on Friday.

I had to lay the wings next to each other to figure out how to match them, as I didn't exactly make notes on where it was centered on the other one. Heck, I didn't measure it at all, but just put it where I thought it looked good!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uwr01.jpg

That looks about right to me...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uwr02.jpg

Frank Giger
10-04-2014, 10:10 AM
Catching up a bit, last week I put on the leading edge to the fourth and last wing. She's taped and prepped for covering on Monday!

Frank Giger
10-10-2014, 08:29 PM
I'll spare y'all the pics of covering the other lower wing...it's just a repeat.

But...

Wings are done!


Top o' the wing...


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw078.jpg


That's the one just finished on the left, I pulled the other one out to ensure they were uniform with each other.


http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/lw079.jpg


I still have to cut them for the landing wires, and on the upper wings do the same and make sure the interplane struts and forward cabanes fit the holes I cut in the leading edge for them, as well as make that center section.


But it sure feels like I've reached a milestone. On to the fuselage!

Blue Chips
10-11-2014, 06:04 AM
Frank,
Those wings look absolutely great, you done a great job on this project and have stuck too it not too mention taking the time to post post all the pictures and share your work progress and methods.


Ken

Frank Giger
10-12-2014, 11:33 AM
Thanks for your kind words. There's fewer pictures on process because A) most of it is repetition, and B) I haven't screwed anything up (so far as I know). One of the most interesting and educational things about the build is figuring out how to do something and figuring out how to un-do something that went wrong.

That's really the purpose for this thread - to show common rookie mistakes* and how to avoid them or get out of them. Plus it'll make it very easy to produce a (better) builder's log. The one I have been scribbling in is toast, with water damage, dirt, grease, paint smears, and generally unuseable. So I'm just going to cut and paste from this.

* And I make a lot of them. If it wasn't for my EAA chapter friends and the web, I'd be wrecked. It is kind of neat to start out as the dummy in the room who doesn't know what a compression strut is (I called them spar pipes, which I still think is a good name for them) to someone who gives presentations on build techniques in our chapter.

Of course what I really learned is just how much I don't know, and what I really need to learn how to do.

Frank Giger
10-16-2014, 08:49 AM
A little bump to show how I'm being educated as I recreationally experiment!

So here's some pictures!

First, wings got put up with a small frowny face, as I failed to put towels down on the sawhorses and will need to touch up the paint in a place or two on the wings.

But it's no longer a complete OSHA nightmare!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/td001.jpg

The turtle deck supports I had made out of scrap plywood did not fare well out in the weather, since I didn't varnish them. That's okay, they were made as test pieces to begin with!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/td002.jpg

What I really wanted was something light, robust, corrosion resistant, and thick enough for the tubing to have some purchase when resting on them.

Hmmmm, I thought as I looked at the aircraft supply section of Walmart, that fits the bill pretty good:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/td003.jpg

So the quarter inch thick nylon cutting board got measured using the crappy wooden ones as templates, drilled and cut.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/td004.jpg

They're held in place with rubber lined adel clips and standard (non aviation) bolts with locking nuts. They just have to keep the stringers from sagging when I cover, and are gooder enough for that (they ain't moving around), I reckon.

Frank Giger
10-16-2014, 06:14 PM
So now for some lighthearted comedy.

There have been a lot of things that made me scratch my head in the build - the seat, hanging the gas tank, and those stupid aileron leading edges.

Then there are things that just weren't fun. Getting the rigging right was maddening, finishing tapes were a nightmare, and now....safety wire.

Turnbuckles on control wires should be made to where they can't undo themselves using a specific sort of wrap according to my friend The Internet called the double cross wrap zig-zag (or something like that).

The idea is to take two wires, put them through the hole in the center, bend them to where one tail of each goes to the other end where they loop over and wrap....stop me if you've heard this one before.

Okay, so things were looking up when I immediately stabbed myself with the wire out of the spool thingie and drew blood. Hurts like a paper cut, so I figure it's gonna be okay with the red stuff offered to the airplane gods right off the bat.

First try:

Put the wires through, cross them twice, up through the loop, one down the barrel, the other five wraps. Then take the one that was under that one and wrap five times the other way. Cut everything and tuck them down.

Sweet.

Pull tension on one of the wires for the other side to snug it down.

Come away with a full wire. Dang and other bad words...I have just used the same wire on one end. Pull it off and try again.

Second try:

More blood, and it just isn't snug no matter how much I pull on it. Worse, the turnbuckle can move quite a bit, defeating the whole purpose of the exercise.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/swire001.jpg

Man, that's total crap. But what am I doing using the thickest safety wire in my collection?

Grab the thinner stuff. Oh, now I get it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/swire002.jpg

It's not really sexy, but the turnbuckle is secured. Do the same on the other side.

One more thing to cross off the list.

Matt Gonitzke
10-16-2014, 06:58 PM
Why aren't you using the turnbuckle clips instead of safety wire? Much less frustration.

Frank Giger
10-16-2014, 07:55 PM
Because until I posted this on another board I didn't even know there were such things as turnbuckle clips!

:)

But I have oodles of wire, time, and about a gallon and a half of blood in my body, of which I can loose at least a pint with no ill effects.


Not to mention a veritable cornucopia of profanities to draw from should I need to.

Jim Hann
10-21-2014, 07:30 AM
Looking good Frank! I've been hiding in the paint booth of late. Today, maybe a wing!
4256

Frank Giger
10-21-2014, 06:07 PM
Hey, that's dead sexy!

Everybody's stuff always looks better than mine. Except wives. Mine looks better than yours!

Anyhow, no pics as I was a bit distracted and didn't take any! Firewall mounted and the crimped L sections put around the edges for the cowling, top and side sheeting to attach to. Made a template out of poster board for the top sheeting over the cockpit. My hole is actually an oval, but it sure looks like a circle once it's on the aircraft.

Tomorrow I'm picking up a harness and a batter for fitting. The former is important, as I need to see how feasible it is to have it run over the top of the rear of the cockpit through the turtle deck. I want a very straight line between shoulder and harness mount in case of misfortune.

Chick
10-22-2014, 01:24 PM
Once again Sir, thank you for sharing this. I am really enjoying this thread. I hope to be able to see this beauty fly.

Frank Giger
10-25-2014, 07:23 AM
I had to order the harness, and it arrived late yesterday.

With just a little while to check how the shoulder harnesses will run, my suspicions that it will be best to run them through the fabric on the top of the turtledeck proved true; it's the only way to give them a straight line from mount to my shoulders. The exit point is okay, though - it's right behind the rear of the cockpit between the stringers - and an inspection ring with a slit in the fabric will work out just fine.

I'm going to make some metal straps at the junction of the horizontal fuselage brace and the longeron, running them through the gusset. The tubing on the top brace is quarter inch aluminum and wouldn't take the stress of a wreck. I'll run cable between the straps with the mounts for the shoulder harness through that cable. The lap belt mounts are no problem at all.

Todd copeland
10-25-2014, 06:05 PM
Frank, what a great little plane you have. Fantastic craftsmanship as well. Please tell me, can a big guy fly one? I'm 6'2 210lbs. I like the idea of wind in my face!

Frank Giger
10-27-2014, 11:09 AM
You could, theoretically, fit into a 7/8 scale Nieuport 11, but I wouldn't advise it as you'd be uncomfortable and have to not only put on a larger engine (or use a PSRU) but have to tinker with the CG.

It works for me since I'm a 7/8 scale person - when I step up to my plane I turn from a 5'7" 160 pound guy to 6'2" and 200 pound manly man.

Since you're full scale, you really need a full scale airplane.

Fortunately, Robert Baslee has a bunch of full scale WWI representational aircraft in his Airdrome Aeroplane stable. http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/

The Fokker DVII, which is listed at 80% scale, could fit you easily, though. And the full sized Camel would be even better.

The prices are insanely affordable, even for a guy like me working on a 7/8th scale budget: http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/airdromeorderform.html

Now, then, a word about the kits. They're not really kits in the modern sense - they're more like material supplies. While all the hardware is there and the gussets are all pre-cut (and if tubing needs to be ovalled, it's oval), the tubing is left overly long and requires coping and fitting. Nothing is pre-punched. Mr. Baslee also likes to put in extra tubing and gussets, so inventory can be a little goofy; I learned not to stress too much when I had extra parts (like gussets) left over.

The real value of the kit is that once one buys a kit (or part of a kit, like the fuselage), one can go up to Holden, MO, and take advantage of the builder's assist in his workshop. In the WWI replica world it's kindly referred to as the House of Pain, as Robert and his assistant, Jim, will assist - but the builder does the work (and bringing friends is encouraged). Robert doesn't like to stand around and talk about airplanes; he likes to build them, and tends to encourage working quickly and efficiently (I think his sometime nickname of Bullwhip Baslee is a little exaggerated). The big thing is that it's like a constant building seminar - I didn't know jack about tube and gusset construction, annealing, bending tubes, riveting, removing rivets, or anything about building airplanes when I showed up on Monday. On Friday I had learned all the skills required to build the aircraft (less covering), and more importantly came away with a fuselage done, on gear, with the tail feathers complete and fitted as well. On my aircraft, which I then took home!

On to my little Bebe! I worked up a seat cushion this morning and have some small steel lift tangs that I painted drying. When they do, I'm going to put them onto the gussets and run the shoulder harness wire. Gonna fit the panel as well.

Todd copeland
10-27-2014, 05:48 PM
Might have to consider that 80% sa ale Fokker. Too cool, it would be a blast to fly. Hmm, thanks for fanning the flames here, just what I need. Already have two planes and this one would truly be a different mission so I could justify it to myself to add to the collections! And besides, after my Glasair III is done there will be a large void in my life after a long five year build.

Frank Giger
10-27-2014, 06:41 PM
I think this video of Airdrome Aeroplanes almost qualifies as NSFW:


http://vimeo.com/32382093

Frank Giger
10-27-2014, 07:19 PM
Oh, I did actually get some work done on the plane...

Didn't get a chance to mount the harness today, but I managed to whip together the seat cushion.

My derr, I'm not too smart, am I moment presented itself early. I had pulled the fabric bolt that I used for the back of the seat and frowned at how wrinkled it was.

Man. That's not going to work.

Well, der, it's not like I don't have three irons and some plywood back there.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cush001.jpg

Cutting the plywood base to fit was a snap (and I had to make a custom cushion because I made a custom seat), and some foam I had laying about was cut and put onto it using some 77 adhesive.

Note the precision of the scissor work on the edges. They don't teach craftsmanship like that in schools!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cush002.jpg

3M 77 adhesive around the edges underneath to hold the fabric for me.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cush003.jpg

Pull and tuck the fabric over the foam...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cush004.jpg

Gooder enough for me, and the holes in the seat fit it just right for the seat belt.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cush005.jpg

I'll go back and put in some staples underneath and ScotchGuard the fabric tomorrow.

Now, then, a couple notes:

1) It's just WalMart foam for the cushion. Enough to keep my butt off the hard of the seat and not much more. It's far less than what is in certified aircraft or what's recommended from a safety standpoint. Remember, though, that this plane is really a fat ultralight.

2) Yes, at one point I actually started long division on what half of 22.5 was. And then solved it and wrote it out. But I found that doing even simple math in one's head is a good way to have the opportunity to redo a part.