PDA

View Full Version : Replacing wing coverings



kenkal
04-03-2015, 08:39 PM
Recently purchased an Ercoupe 415-C. The wing covering is now @ 30 years old, discolored white (insignia white?). The fabric seems very good even after all this time as the plane was hangered and unattended for many years. Wishing to deep clean the wings and/or to repaint the wings without removing the fabric. Happy to receive any advice as i am a novice owner after renting up to this time. My coupe was recently annualed and all seems structually good.

Thanks,

Al

Don January
04-03-2015, 08:46 PM
I personally would give the plane a detailed cleaning and hand work all the areas. sometimes you feel things you can't see. plus beings it's your own plane it gives you a chance to learn more about it.

kenkal
04-04-2015, 09:56 PM
Hi Don,
Thanks for your interest in helping. Any thoughts as to how to deep clean (cleaning products and tools required) and also your thoughts regarding repainting fabric wings rather than to remove the old covering and starting brand new?

Jim Hann
04-04-2015, 10:53 PM
Hi Don,
Thanks for your interest in helping. Any thoughts as to how to deep clean (cleaning products and tools required) and also your thoughts regarding repainting fabric wings rather than to remove the old covering and starting brand new?

Al,

I would start with an inspection to see if the fabric is legal. From there I'd get into the logbooks and find out what exactly the finish is on the wings, that will tell you what you should and shouldn't use, including the manufacturer's recommendation (if they are still around.) Failing that, car wash soap and a sponge and water should clean much of the dirt. As to what to repaint it with, that goes back to what is on the wings now and what you are hoping to achieve. I believe Stewart Systems is approved to top coat any existing finish.

Good luck!

Jim

Don January
04-05-2015, 02:24 PM
Al. Jim pretty well sum's it up, I fly composite kr2 so I need to let you find the fabric test angle, I do believe there is a punch test tool that determins fabric strenght. The pawnee spray plane we always washed the fabric with simply green mixed with dawn dish soap and hot,hot water with a soft cotton rag. the key for me was alot of hard elbo greese:) Turtle wax works well for your windshield ect. I would pull all your inspection plates and take a flash light and scope every were you can we use to take a long radiator blow gun nozzle with LOW air preasure (about 30 psi) and clean out pully areas and any were dirt and dust may settle, was amazed how much dirt collects inside the plane. I recommend NEVER use steel wool or any agressive cleaning pads. like Jim says there is alot of great painting supplies to go with. Don

Bill Barker
04-06-2015, 07:14 PM
My coupe was recently annualed and all seems structually good.


Al,
If it just passed an annual inspection, it had better be structurally sound! I would think that any A&P IA that signed it off would be crazy not to have tested the fabric to their satisfaction, as well. After all, passing the annual inspection is the inspector's assurance to you that you can trust your life to the aircraft.
Bill

Jim Clark
04-07-2015, 10:29 AM
Don is right on with the recommendation for Simple Green. It is the only degreaser that won't screw up aluminum. I use it for cleaning tough areas on all my fabric covered aircraft and have for many years. Just know that after using Simple Green and Dawn there won't be any protective wax on the painted surfaces, perfect to prepare for refinishing but not to leave out in the elements.

kenkal
04-07-2015, 07:35 PM
Thanks to all of you for responding. Will wash the plane soon and will check the logs regarding fabric covering but logs are not complete. Will become familiar with Stewart systems as per Jim's advice. In the end, I really wish to repaint the top of the fabric covering to better match it with the fuselage (Insignia White). Sounds like many of you feel that repainting the existing fabric is a viable option.

Richard Warner
04-09-2015, 08:54 PM
Kenkal, If the logs aren't complete, order the airplane's records from the FAA. This should have any 337's that have been filled out showing any major repairs or alterations, including the recover job that is presently on the wings. From that you should be able to see what finish was used on the fabric.

Greg Wilson
04-10-2015, 08:11 AM
Kenkal, you are correct as to the Stewart System being approved over any other covering system. Something to bare in mind with it is that it is affected by auto gas. The urethane top coats are not effected but the first coat,(EkoFill,U.V. blocker),EkoPrime,and the glue are all softened?dissolved by auto gas, they are not affected by 100LL. They make a good cleaner as well, but Dawn detergent will remove oils and wax as well as anything. Early versions of Simple Green caused corrosion of aluminum,(it was used extensively by the Air Force, when this problem was discovered) the current formulations do not have this problem and a specific "Aviation" cleaner is available from them.
The first step as to refinishing is, as others have said, to determine what fabric system was used. Ceconite with dope can be "rejuvenated" so can Stitts/Poly Fiber, the Stewart finish can be applied over any surface. Be aware that old fabric my not have an "approved" finish by today's standards as the STC procedures in the past only went through the U.V. blocker,("silver"), so your existing color paint could be anything legally if the covering was done long enough ago, automotive enamel etc.
Start with a good cleaning and paperwork search and get the record C.D. from the FAA.
Good Luck and have fun.

vaflier
04-10-2015, 07:03 PM
Simple Green is in fact highly corrosive to aluminum. The one you want is called Simple Green Extreme and Aircrfaft Spruce carries it. It will not cause corrosion.

Greg Wilson
04-11-2015, 07:11 AM
Simple Green is in fact highly corrosive to aluminum. The one you want is called Simple Green Extreme and Aircraft Spruce carries it. It will not cause corrosion.
Thanks for looking up the specific Simple Green product that was safe for aluminum. I could not remember the name given to it just that the normal product caused extensive corrosion. The "biodegradable" labels on cleaners often lead to thinking that a product is "safe" for all things.

kenkal
04-14-2015, 05:02 PM
Thanks, Greg,
I have the FAA CD and it does not mention anything about the fabric covering. The logs are incomplete which means that any "maintenance" could have taken place and not recorded in those unrecorded years. However, I guess that some work could have been undertaken and just not recorded during the time the logs were actually kept anyway.
Really appreciated your comments.
Al

kenkal
04-14-2015, 05:38 PM
Thanks, Greg,
I have a recently ordered FAA CD and the covering was not indicated. Even if my current logs (that came with the coupe) were complete, I guess someone could have done some unrecorded "maintenance" anyway. So---

Thanks, Al

skyfixer8
04-20-2015, 06:37 AM
Having read the info on this site about the Stewart System and its not being reliable around auto fuel, I need to ask, is this just an opinion because it is a new system or is it factual ? I am going to recover an Ercoupe 415 soon, and it seems to be a good method on the videos I have seen. I am also waiting on an opinion from the company.

Greg Wilson
04-21-2015, 08:18 AM
skyfixer8,
My opinion about the Stewart System is based on my experience. I used it last year when recovering a Piper Pacer, I used it because of the low toxicity etc. The paint its self was very different to apply, the Co. said it would be quite the learning curve, it is not like dope or enamel at all. There is no notification with the product that it is affected by auto gas, just the statement that "once cured it can not be returned to liquid state by any solvent". Well a fuel leak later it had not returned to "liquid" but all glue joints that gotten wet were loose, surface tape actually fell from the belly and the paint was all sagging and loose. This was with about 13 hours of time, the insulation under the fabric had been soaked. Check the short wing piper site as others besides me have had problems as well. The company told me that the "finish coat" is immune but all the underlying coatings and glue are affected by the "injector cleaner" additives in auto gas. It does not seem to be affected by 100LL,(I have soaked glued/painted pieces to check this). Just be aware that fuel spilled that can get into the tank bays or run off the wing and around a window could cause a problem. Fuel should not be spilled on/ in the aircraft but, who has not EVER overfilled a tank sending gas all over the wing or nose? Ceconite process super seam cement and nitrite/CAB dope do not seem to be affected by the autogas that I use,Marathon Rec. 90.
I was willing to use it again until I had the problem with spilled fuel, If you do use it I would recommend spraying the finish top coat(urethane),(the CD will show EkoPrime for this ,that won't work according to Setwart) in the tank bays and try to seal every opening as much as possible.

skyfixer8
04-21-2015, 01:09 PM
Thanks for the reply Greg. Am now curious what the company answer will be. Looks like i might be using Poly system then.
Bill

kenkal
04-25-2015, 08:33 PM
Please forward any info that you get as i plan to deep clean my ercoupe wings and repaint rather than to replace the current fabric.

Al