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brokerej
11-10-2014, 06:46 PM
Ive heard of people converting a pacer to an experimental bushmaster, is this possible and if so who do I contact for further info.

Jim Hann
11-11-2014, 03:14 AM
You can look around on www.shortwingpipers.org for more information. I did a search and came up with 38 threads where the bushmaster is mentioned but you have to be registered to see the search results.

I believe there might be some info on www.supercub.org also, but I didn't look there.

Jim

Eric Brown
11-11-2014, 07:00 PM
Well....... there is one other thing to consider. The FAA. A memo dated 5-11-2007, to FAA inspectors, DARs, & FSDOs, from the manager of the FAA production and airworthiness division, that applying for application for a previously certified airplane for certification as an amateur built is no longer accepted as it no longer meets the intent of FAR 21.191(g). It states that FAA order 8130.2, chapter 4 has new language added to clarify this position.

cluttonfred
11-12-2014, 01:35 AM
You might also want to look at the Wag-Aero Sportsman 2+2 (http://www.wagaero.com/sport2x2.html) as a scratch-building project or to convert a used one with similar modifications and less paperwork. The Christavia MkIV (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/kitspages/christaviaMK4.php) is also similar.

martymayes
11-12-2014, 09:50 AM
Ive heard of people converting a pacer to an experimental bushmaster, is this possible and if so who do I contact for further info.

At the end of the day, to get exp/amateur-built status, you have to fabricate and assemble the major portion. There is nothing that says you can't use salvaged components, in fact, FAA guidance specifically states salvaged components can be used in a homebuilt project. You just not going to get fabrication credit for those components. Use the checklist in 20-27g and if you can show you fabricated and assembled the major portion, no reason why you can't have an e/AB aircraft.

Of course, if you can't show major portion was fabricated for education and/or recreation you can still have an experimental airplane. It just won't fall under the amateur-built heading. There's a lot of other type experimentals out there that fly on a regular basis. Just be sure the limitations of such aircraft fit in with your plans.

WWhunter
11-13-2014, 08:28 PM
There is actually one listed on an auction that is called a Cougar (?) which is basically the same thing as the Bushmaster but streched a little more. At least I think that is how the owner discribed it to me.



http://www.bid-2-buy.com/ws/ws118/T3-1.jpg (http://www.bid-2-buy.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?bidbuy118/3)
PA 20-22 Conversion Airplane
Lycoming 0-320 Series
TM 20/14 Cougar
The following description has been provided by the seller.

Please contact Tim Melby at 218-731-0909 with any questions regarding this plane.


Built in 1997 and has 285 hours on the conversion
Dash is a standard 1956 tri-pacer panel
Dual fuel selectors for the fuel tanks
No Avionics
Seller uses a hand held radio from Sport's that works great
Interior is coconite and carpet floor, left hand emergency door and tinted glass all around
Light weight starter and alternator
Fish pole tube
Split front and rear seats
The fuselage is stretched 36" and has a larger tail and rudder
Cowl is made to accept up to a 230 hp engine
Seller states current engine has about 485 hours since rebuild
All new parts and balanced at tha time-This was not just a major overhaul
Wings are 17' with 8 1'2' flap and 8' aileron.
Wings have stall fences and leading edge extensions and splats on the tips - 5-20-30% flap settings
Wheel penetration skis with plastic bottoms
3200 Scott tail wheel and tail ski
One owner Aqua Floats-no damage, fresh water only
Seller states cruise with floats on is 90 mph
Seller states the plane has everything needed for a bush airplane

Eric Brown
11-14-2014, 12:37 AM
[QUOTE=martymayes;45905]At the end of the day, to get exp/amateur-built status, you have to fabricate and assemble the major portion. There is nothing that says you can't use salvaged components, in fact, FAA guidance specifically states salvaged components can be used in a homebuilt project. You just not going to get fabrication credit for those components. Use the checklist in 20-27g and if you can show you fabricated and assembled the major portion, no reason why you can't have an e/AB aircraft.

After referencing FAA order 8130.3G, Chapter 4, section 9, para. 4099(b), the FAA says you can use salvaged parts from a certified airplane in your project, however, when it comes to using the fuselage, or wings, or tail sections from a certified airplane, they may find the airplane ineligible to be certified as amateur built. Just something to consider as I was told by an FAA inspector, that I could NOT use a modified Aeronca L-3 fuselage for an AB certified project.

cluttonfred
11-14-2014, 03:19 AM
The interpretation of the rules will likely vary by inspector and regional office, but it's worth having the conversation. It all comes down to a determination of whether or not you built the major part of the aircraft yourself rather than reusing salvaged components.

martymayes
11-14-2014, 07:30 AM
After referencing FAA order 8130.3G, Chapter 4, section 9, para. 4099(b), the FAA says you can use salvaged parts from a certified airplane in your project, however, when it comes to using the fuselage, or wings, or tail sections from a certified airplane, they may find the airplane ineligible to be certified as amateur built. Just something to consider as I was told by an FAA inspector, that I could NOT use a modified Aeronca L-3 fuselage for an AB certified project.

Eric: Think about it. Look at all the 'Kitfox' type kit airplanes that are supplied with a completely finished welded-powder coated fuselage. The builder gets no credit for fabrication/assembly of the fuselage yet they still qualify as E/AB.

I don't know if this particular inspector was just speaking off the cuff or if he had the AC checklist in hand and was making an accurate assessment of a project but there is an outside chance he just might be wrong? I've had to explain the rules to an FAA inspector before so it would not surprise me.

skyfixer8
11-14-2014, 07:39 AM
Marty, you must have the same inspector i have up here in the Upper Peninsula. I deal with Grand Rapids and have had to explain rules to him also. He believes the A.Cs (advisory circulars) are law and not advisory. He can t even read the date code on "O" ring packages.

henryfb
11-14-2014, 05:11 PM
Ive heard of people converting a pacer to an experimental bushmaster, is this possible and if so who do I contact for further info.

Though dated (1983 I think) The first 2 pages might cast some light on the 51% rule but I expect you will end up reading (& enjoying) the entire item.