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RetroAcro
09-23-2014, 02:42 PM
Just spitballing here. If we have no aspiring AWAC (or possibly Nationals) competitors coming to any particular Regional contest, how about an alternate Advanced category at the CD's (and competitor's) discretion with Knowns not dictated by CIVA, and Unknowns designed to minimize energy and roll rate requirements, while retaining a decent amount of challenge. To balance the removal of some high energy figures that give the 6-cylinder monoplanes an advantage, how about pulling in negative snaps to add back some complexity without increasing energy requirements. We're already pushing hard in Advanced - why not just push the rudder as well. I'm sure the addition of negative snaps in Advanced would be controversial. I've had fun flying one in my Free for the last year (by choice) - Figure 4 to be exact, minus the push out.

Anyway, just an example sequence I put together that could be a Known or Unknown. I think there's quite a bit of challenge here without requiring a lot in the way of energy and roll rate (by Pitts standards). This sequence is 9 figures, same as the Advanced Knowns each year, and is 274K total, one point higher than the highest K Advanced Known in the last 10 years. Pilot skill being equal, I think a stock Pitts could hang with the monoplanes flying this. The monoplanes will still have an advantage though - we haven't even talked about cheated aileron snap stops yet, which is very real. Can't get away with that in a Pitts nearly as easily! What say you, Tony? ...and others of course too.

Eric

http://i57.tinypic.com/x2893b.jpg

flyrite
09-23-2014, 03:43 PM
Really like the idea Eric, I wouldn't substitute the knowns with alternate sequences such as this{you can practice away the disparity to negate it there}...But I really like taking away the advantage in the unknowns that the alternates would bring... Without revisiting history... This is exactly what I was hoping for last year when I posted the "unfair unknowns" thread addressing the sequence's.... That thread came after 2 contests that I loss the overall because of energy eating sequences because of low calls!!

My suggestion then was to make it as complex as you want..just stop with the energy eating figures after the 2/3 stage.... stop trying see in the last 3rd of the sequence{which is where the unlimited mounts have the advantage}if your mount could continue to pull vertical & keep going up..up...up... after figures that had you out of energy.....

But...Man Eric ....This would be great... add complexity to the flying without giving the guys flying the unlimited mounts in advanced year after year anymore advantage to use their superior energy advantage against the "little mounts". Now all I need to do is get my negative snaps up to competition standards...If we are going to do this at Morganton{add neg. snaps} I really need to get busy..Let me know if that's the plan?

And to let you know... If the IAC {president & board}was as interested as you at trying to resolve the "real world disparities" as you... there wouldn't be the perception{deserved or undeserved-in the eyes of the beholder}that there is......I really mean it when I say ...Thanks for trying to fix an obvious disparity...Guys like you & Wes and your labors are why I stay in the sport!

Take Care
Tony

Ultimate Pitts
09-23-2014, 04:54 PM
There is no doubt that you (Tony & Eric ) have a big advantage over your 6cly competitors.Have you ever tried to feed one of those things,as for myself i only fly my 6 Banger then iam being paid for it.

Besides i dont know what the fuss is, every contest i go to,one of you always wins.

Its also so cool to take a airplane that cost less than the tax on a new carbon Monothing,and beat them with it.

Ultimate 4 cly Pitts Danny 007

RetroAcro
09-23-2014, 07:03 PM
Oh look, this forum just went straight to hell...

flyrite
09-23-2014, 07:21 PM
Oh look, this forum just went straight to hell...


Dang....It sure did!!!!

Ultimate Pitts
09-24-2014, 04:37 AM
Iam thinking why is this post going on in the back pages of the EAA chat.I think you all should have posted this stuff on ACRO list.Oh wait a second,maybe you did not because you did not want to kicked out of the IAC.

If you do post it on ACRO,i cant wait to see Spencer news brief on it.Oh he has a 6 banger also.

Tony keep playing the LOTO,i would love to see you fly one of those things.Eric there is no hope for you,because you are just like me.You love a bad ass Pitts.

Danny 007

WLIU
09-24-2014, 06:06 AM
I do not see that you posted the total K for the flight program in post #1, but Brian Howard, Chairman of the IAC Rules Committee is always begging for candidate Unknown Programs. You should send flight programs that you sketch up to Brian. You might get to fly it at a contest.

The IAC requires, for insurance reasons, that all contests use the current year's Known Programs as their first competition flights. Those flight programs have been reviewed by IAC committees and approved at the fall board meeting. I have had a couple of long conversations with a sitting IAC President about how we can use alternate flight programs and the requirement that a current Known Program be contest flight #1 will not be waived for safety and insurance reasons.

That said, as noted above, you can submit as many candidate Unknown Programs to Brian as you can draw. Brian responds to e-mails and will likely offer feedback on your submissions if you ask. I am sure he will welcome the help.
Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS