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flyrite
12-20-2013, 02:01 PM
It may have been addressed before ....But why when you do a chapter search on the eaa website it doesn't link you to the chapter's website your interested in instead of the can-can contact with an e-mail address?

flyrite
12-22-2013, 11:54 AM
Should I address this question some where else for a reply?

Hal Bryan
12-22-2013, 09:22 PM
Hi flyrite - this is the right place but A) I'm not sure I understand your question and B) I'm on vacation doing a lot of traveling so I've got limited availability right now.

Can you clarify what it is you're asking and explain the "can can" bit? If you can be specific and say "I go to the website and I do x and then y, and q happens but I think that actually z happens" that would be helpful.

Thanks!

Hal

flyrite
12-23-2013, 07:54 AM
Hey Hal, Thanks for the response....When you are searching for a chapter{IAC or EAA}all you get is the e-mail link to the person who either maintains it or is the president. What I would like is to be able to access the chapters website itself. I may be overlooking something but other than doing a yahoo search for the chapter of interest I can't see any other way of getting to their website. If after you have gone thru the process of locating the chapter on the eaa site then you click on "Chapter" it gives you nothing but the "can-can" email address of the person running it. Unless I'm missing something {probably he case} why not just link to the web site of interest?

flyrite
12-27-2013, 07:48 PM
Hey Hal, Thanks for the response....When you are searching for a chapter{IAC or EAA}all you get is the e-mail link to the person who either maintains it or is the president. What I would like is to be able to access the chapters website itself. I may be overlooking something but other than doing a yahoo search for the chapter of interest I can't see any other way of getting to their website. If after you have gone thru the process of locating the chapter on the eaa site then you click on "Chapter" it gives you nothing but the "can-can" email address of the person running it. Unless I'm missing something {probably he case} why not just link to the web site of interest?


BUMP!

Hal Bryan
12-27-2013, 07:53 PM
Still on vacation, still don't know what "can-can" means... :)

I'll look into this when I'm back in the office.

flyrite
12-28-2013, 07:39 AM
Still on vacation, still don't know what "can-can" means... :)



Not sure if It's a southern thang or not & from my observation theirs alot of "Northern Philosophy" to this forum...But Let me see if I can "SLPAN IT FER YA"......

Dif. of "CAN-CAN"...from "Websters Redneck Dictionary"..................You make a request for a specific info. only to be given the same can-can response of useless info that you already know !...........Someone gives you a can-can Christmas Card, Meaning no hand written parts only has the can-can words from where ever you bought it from {I.E. Useless words that provide no new info. or help}.......And for one last Dif. of "CAN-CAN".........Any website that you make a request for specific info bout a chapter on one page just to be routed back to the same "CAN-CAN" page that you just left!!!!!

"CAN-CAN".....Useless........A lot like the guy typing this to you now!!!!


Have a good remaining vacation Hal.

Tony Zorn aka flyrite

PaulDow
12-28-2013, 08:22 AM
What page are you doing this search from?
When I go to www.eaa.org/chapters, then on the right column, select Locate a Chapter. That puts me on www.eaa.org/chapters/locator
I filter by State, and/or type of Chapter. When I click on any of the chapter numbers it takes me to the webs version of the chapter's site.

BTW, for chapter people running those pages, don't forget to change the copyright notice next week to say 2014.

1600vw
12-28-2013, 09:09 AM
What he is saying, you get a generic page with limit info just a link to someone's e-mail. I too found this frustrating when I first joined. I thought more info should be available to the members about each club not just an e-mail of some Joe.
But then after being a member and searching local clubs just in my area, I found if one was to put a more intensive list, one would find most clubs are on the way out do to attrition. I even approached a couple clubs and they do not want new members or they would not except me, I may not look right or sound correct, you would have to ask them.
I have seen some clubs or read about some EAA clubs I have a lot of respect for, you just do not find these clubs in my area. Not that I do not respect the members of what clubs we have around here, they are just on the way out. Only thing they do is hold a pancake breakfast every now and again.

Tony

Jim Heffelfinger
12-28-2013, 08:30 PM
A quick history of the EAA chapter websites hosted by webs.com.
About two years ago EAA created a website homepage for each chapter in EAA. This was a basic homepage with the ability for each chapter to add content as they wished.
The program was created to eliminate the problems many chapters had either with no website or websites that were at one point active but webmasters have gone on to other places leaving the site outdated and nearly useless.
EAA wanted to have easily accessible links to each chapter site so that someone interested in becoming a chapter member could quickly and easily find a chapter any place they go or have interest in. It became clear, very quickly, that the only way of doing this was to create the site themselves
By cruising around at the various EAA hosted chapter websites you will find a variety of content. A chapter may only have a homepage that may or may not be current (it was at one time) , it may have some small limited content or you may find one with a tremendous amount of content including customized headers and footers nearly unrecognizable from its original form.
Chapter 52 in Sacramento was one of those chapters with at one time an excellent website with tremendous content, beautifully laid out with lots of widgets and links to weather stations, and then the webmaster disappeared, we lost contact with the server and went through endless hours trying to get the old site turnoff so that we would not look like a bunch of buffoons.
I personally keep up my chapter site and have from the beginning of the EAA created sites. I really appreciate EAA creating the basic framework within which I can add content. Using the Webs tools it's fairly easy to keep the site updated- limited only by my imagination and time.

1600vw
12-28-2013, 09:09 PM
Jim when I lived in Sacramento I worked all the time and no time for much else. But I do love that area. The weather is the best I have ever seen. I was in that area for about 8 years. I drove past a glider air park a few times. Its been so long ago I could not tell you the location.
When it comes to clubs and aviation all together. Its a dieing sport or hobby. We can all argue this but it is what it is. Aviation just does not have the young ones lining up to become pilots. We do see some but not like years past.
If they where to redo this list in a few years half these clubs will be gone. I know of at least a few in my area that will be gone in 3-5 years if they hold on that long.

Tony

Jim Heffelfinger
12-28-2013, 09:20 PM
A quick history of the EAA chapter websites hosted by webs.com.
About two years ago EAA created a website homepage for each chapter in EAA. This was a basic homepage with the ability for each chapter to add content as they wished.
The program was created to eliminate the problems many chapters had either with no website or websites that were at one point active but webmasters have gone on to other places leaving the site outdated and nearly useless.
EAA wanted to have easily accessible links to each chapter site so that someone interested in becoming a chapter member could quickly and easily find a chapter any place they go or have interest in. It became clear, very quickly, that the only way of doing this was to create the site themselves
By cruising around at the various EAA hosted chapter websites you will find a variety of content. A chapter may only have a homepage that may or may not be current (it was at one time) , it may have some small limited content or you may find one with a tremendous amount of content including customized headers and footers nearly unrecognizable from its original form.
Chapter 52 in Sacramento was one of those chapters with at one time an excellent website with tremendous content, beautifully laid out with lots of widgets and links to weather stations, and then the webmaster disappeared, we lost contact with the server and went through endless hours trying to get the old site turnoff so that we would not look like a bunch of buffoons.
I personally keep up my chapter site and have from the beginning of the EAA created sites. I really appreciate EAA creating the basic framework within which I can add content. Using the Webs tools it's fairly easy to keep the site updated- limited only by my imagination and time.

PaulDow
12-29-2013, 05:41 PM
What he is saying, you get a generic page with limit info just a link to someone's e-mail. I too found this frustrating when I first joined. I thought more info should be available to the members about each club not just an e-mail of some Joe.OK. I get it now. The problem isn't the links, it's that many chapters aren't putting more content on their web sites.

Unlike Minor League Baseball where the league can require the Timber Rattlers to have a web site with specific content that is current, the EAA chapters operate as independent corporations with support from the mother ship, so they can't put any requirements out there (well, not without a lot of complaining.)

Maybe the template provided to chapters can be changed to put meeting time and location. Add another couple of fields to the function that puts the chapter president and phone number. A blanket statement about what chapters do could go there too. If a chapter puts up their own content, it would replace it.

Hal Bryan
01-06-2014, 08:47 AM
Thanks for helping provide some clarity while I was out, Paul!

A little clarification of my own:



Maybe the template provided to chapters can be changed to put meeting time and location. Add another couple of fields to the function that puts the chapter president and phone number.

First off, if Chapters are using the EAA Events Calendar (http://eaa.org/calendar/) as we encourage all of them to do, then their meetings will automatically show up on the home page and the events page. The home page has code that automatically displays all events in the next 30 days, while the Events page shows all upcoming events, period.


A blanket statement about what chapters do could go there too. If a chapter puts up their own content, it would replace it.

This is already included on the About page of each site.

cub builder
01-06-2014, 11:03 AM
A quick history of the EAA chapter websites hosted by webs.com.
I personally keep up my chapter site and have from the beginning of the EAA created sites. I really appreciate EAA creating the basic framework within which I can add content. Using the Webs tools it's fairly easy to keep the site updated- limited only by my imagination and time.


I had the exact opposite experience with the Webs.com tools. I thought the tools were really clunky and difficult to use. I would much rather build and test my web pages on my system using the site builder tools I work with daily, then push the pages to the EAA Web site. When I complained to the admin and asked to be allowed to FTP our existing chapter web pages to the web site rather than being forced to rebuild our site from scratch with a set of unfamiliar clunky tools, I was told I was the only web master to complain about the tools and they weren't willing to accommodate me. C'mon guys, I really wasn't asking for anything out of the ordinary.

Thumbing through the EAA chapter web sites on webs.com, I see that the vast majority of sites are dormant or are rarely updated. If the EAA could cooperate just a little bit and allow web masters to use their own set of web site builder tools and push their pages to the EAA site with FTP, I think we would see a lot fewer dormant web sites. Our chapter ended up just putting a link to our web site on the EAA site and continued to pay for our own domain name and web service.

The overall EAA Chapters web site is a great idea, especially with the default page and contact information, but the implementation wasn't so great. It could have been so much more useful by allowing web masters to build their pages with their own tools and push them to the EAA site, which is the industry standard. Instead, the vast majority of chapters don't use it.

-CubBuilder

flyrite
01-07-2014, 06:35 AM
I had the exact opposite experience with the Webs.com tools. I thought the tools were really clunky and difficult to use. I would much rather build and test my web pages on my system using the site builder tools I work with daily, then push the pages to the EAA Web site. When I complained to the admin and asked to be allowed to FTP our existing chapter web pages to the web site rather than being forced to rebuild our site from scratch with a set of unfamiliar clunky tools, I was told I was the only web master to complain about the tools and they weren't willing to accommodate me. C'mon guys, I really wasn't asking for anything out of the ordinary.

Thumbing through the EAA chapter web sites on webs.com, I see that the vast majority of sites are dormant or are rarely updated. If the EAA could cooperate just a little bit and allow web masters to use their own set of web site builder tools and push their pages to the EAA site with FTP, I think we would see a lot fewer dormant web sites. Our chapter ended up just putting a link to our web site on the EAA site and continued to pay for our own domain name and web service.

The overall EAA Chapters web site is a great idea, especially with the default page and contact information, but the implementation wasn't so great. It could have been so much more useful by allowing web masters to build their pages with their own tools and push them to the EAA site, which is the industry standard. Instead, the vast majority of chapters don't use it.

-CubBuilder

Ahh..Cub builder seems to have explained the problem!!!!!!

cub builder
01-08-2014, 02:55 PM
I don't even begin to believe most chapters would suddenly start building web pages, but I do believe more would do so if the EAA allowed us to use industry standards rather than forcing us into the WEBS.com tool set. Make the WEBS tool set available for those that want to use them, but allow the rest of us to use industry standard tools. I know I would much rather have the EAA web site hosting our chapter web site for free than for us to be paying for a domain name and using a free web host that overlays their advertising over our pages.

I find it mildly annoying that when I made a public statement about this in this thread under Chapters, which it certainly pertains to, the thread was moved over into feedback, which is kind of like getting dumped into the bit bucket. I brought this up when the web sites were first created, the administrator acted like I'm an idiot. No reason to believe he'll think any different today. Maybe he's right?

-CubBuilder

Hal Bryan
01-08-2014, 03:07 PM
I don't even begin to believe most chapters would suddenly start building web pages, but I do believe more would do so if the EAA allowed us to use industry standards rather than forcing us into the WEBS.com tool set. Make the WEBS tool set available for those that want to use them, but allow the rest of us to use industry standard tools. I know I would much rather have the EAA web site hosting our chapter web site for free than for us to be paying for a domain name and using a free web host that overlays their advertising over our pages.

Cub Builder, your feedback is well taken. We chose Webs.com as the best compromise available in terms of reasonable flexibility weighted against ease of use. There's no question that the latter weighed more heavily - the idea that some significant number of our chapters have the ability to build websites from scratch and FTP them out to a server just isn't realistic.

Like any one-size-fits-all solution, it really doesn't fit anyone perfectly.


I find it mildly annoying that when I made a public statement about this in this thread under Chapters, which it certainly pertains to, the thread was moved over into feedback, which is kind of like getting dumped into the bit bucket.

You're misinterpreting the situation here: what I didn't notice while I was traveling over the holidays and keeping up on the forums via my cell phone was that flyrite had created two duplicate threads. Because there was some valuable discussion in both, I merged the threads. This one became the "master", because it had more responses. This was just basic forum housekeeping, that's all. No insult, implied or otherwise, intended. If the participants prefer, I'm more than happy to move the whole thing back to the Chapters section, though I don't believe that the location of the discussion really carries with it any implied hierarchy.


I brought this up when the web sites were first created, the administrator acted like I'm an idiot. No reason to believe he'll think any different today. Maybe he's right?
-CubBuilder

I did no such thing, and I'm utterly baffled at the accusation.

Jim Heffelfinger
01-08-2014, 05:00 PM
Thanks for your dedicated work Hal.
As any membership organization (including political ones) they are full spectrum groups.
Since I made a comment others took differently I will add that I am not a web designer, I am not an IT professional and I have no desire to work in HTML. Making site changes are clunky - but I do not have any other knowledge. So, It is what it is. Those with great sites/skills - hotlink from the EAA chapter site to your site. The rest of us will struggle along to do the best we can. They say if it's on the web it is on forever.... so true with my chapter site - I can not get the server to dump/block the old now 4 years out of date site. It took nearly a year to prove to them that I am representing the site owner and need to get it shut down. They have finally stopped invoicing for service.

cub builder
01-09-2014, 11:09 AM
Cub Builder, your feedback is well taken. We chose Webs.com as the best compromise available in terms of reasonable flexibility weighted against ease of use. There's no question that the latter weighed more heavily - the idea that some significant number of our chapters have the ability to build websites from scratch and FTP them out to a server just isn't realistic.

Like any one-size-fits-all solution, it really doesn't fit anyone perfectly.


You're misinterpreting the situation here: what I didn't notice while I was traveling over the holidays and keeping up on the forums via my cell phone was that flyrite had created two duplicate threads. Because there was some valuable discussion in both, I merged the threads. This one became the "master", because it had more responses. This was just basic forum housekeeping, that's all. No insult, implied or otherwise, intended. If the participants prefer, I'm more than happy to move the whole thing back to the Chapters section, though I don't believe that the location of the discussion really carries with it any implied hierarchy.


Which is why I said *mildly* annoyed. I didn't know if this was a routine maintenance thing, or whether you quickly shuffled this off to an unread forum due to my criticism. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.



I did no such thing, and I'm utterly baffled at the accusation.

I'll take this off line with a PM to Hal. I will say that being treated like an idiot was my interpretation of what Hal wrote to me 2 years ago, and not in fact what he said. In all fairness to Hal, while I took offense to his message to me then, that's probably not how he meant for me to interpret what he said.

-CubBuilder

Hal Bryan
01-09-2014, 01:23 PM
Many thanks, CubBuilder - much appreciated. I got your message and look forward to taking the time to read through it.

flyrite
01-10-2014, 03:41 PM
So Hal, Can you....being the point of the spear on this issue "Bottom Line it" as to why we have this problem. Or has the answer already been given in one of the many posts on the subject?

Tony {can-can useless poster}

Hal Bryan
01-10-2014, 04:19 PM
So Hal, Can you....being the point of the spear on this issue "Bottom Line it" as to why we have this problem. Or has the answer already been given in one of the many posts on the subject?

Tony {can-can useless poster}

Maybe...? :)

Here's how it works:

You go to http://eaa.org/chapters/locator/ and search for Chapter in, say a particular state.
You get a list of chapters by number, city, etc.
You click on the chapter you're interested in.

This opens up their website, so your initial question was pretty confusing to me.

It opens their EAA-subsidized website, that is, which, even if they've done nothing to update it, will show at a minimum their current contact information* and their scheduled events. (The home page shows events scheduled in the next 30 days, while the "Events" page shows all of that chapter's events

If you see a website that doesn't include a lot of content, that means the chapter hasn't put it there. If the chapter has an independent website (as, by our estimates, a few hundred chapters do), then they're supposed to put a link on the one we gave them that takes you to their "real" website. Most chapters do this, but some have not.

The concept of chapter search results linking directly to the EAA-subsidized sites even if the chapter may have an independent site of their own is something I'm expecting us to revisit.

*-Important note about contact information: You will see gaps in January as we process renewals. This is a time and labor intensive process, so you will undoubtedly see some chapters' contact information is incomplete as we enter (or, in some cases, wait for) updated information from chapters about their new officers, etc. These gaps are short-lived, and I wouldn't have mentioned them except for the fact that we're having this discussion...in January. :)

Jim Hann
01-11-2014, 09:36 AM
*-Important note about contact information: You will see gaps in January as we process renewals. This is a time and labor intensive process, so you will undoubtedly see some chapters' contact information is incomplete as we enter (or, in some cases, wait for) updated information from chapters about their new officers, etc. These gaps are short-lived, and I wouldn't have mentioned them except for the fact that we're having this discussion...in January. :)
Wait!!! Hal (or another staffer), you mean you don't stand at the post office each day waiting for each application so you can pull out your tablet and update the data instantly???

I AM KIDDING! Thanks again for doing a great job keeping us informed Hal.

Jim

cub builder
01-11-2014, 01:43 PM
Maybe...? :)
If the chapter has an independent website (as, by our estimates, a few hundred chapters do), then they're supposed to put a link on the one we gave them that takes you to their "real" website. Most chapters do this, but some have not.


For those that might be interested, here is where Hal and I have a disconnect (and have been having a discussion off line). As one of those that put up and maintained one one of the "few hundred" independent web sites that contains only EAA chapter related material, I would like for the EAA to host our chapter web site on the WEBS server rather than having the chapter pay for a domain name and web hosting service. Unfortunately, we aren't allowed to simply push a copy of our web sites to the EAAs WEBS hosting site, so our chapter is stuck paying for external web services. :(

I think Hal and I both understand each others issues, but are apparently constrained by the EAAs contract with WEBS. Reading Hal's previous post (and highlighted quote by me), it appears that I would be among a "few hundred" chapter web masters that have this issue with the EAAs web hosting service.

I really do applaud the EAA and Hal for putting up a default web page with some basic information out there for each chapter. It was sorely needed. I just wish there was some follow up to make the site more useful for all chapters. While Hal and I have been discussing this off line, and I think Hal probably finds this somewhat frustrating as well, I don't see any commitment on the EAAs part to address the issue.

-CubBuilder

Hal Bryan
01-13-2014, 12:29 PM
Wait!!! Hal (or another staffer), you mean you don't stand at the post office each day waiting for each application so you can pull out your tablet and update the data instantly???

I AM KIDDING! Thanks again for doing a great job keeping us informed Hal.

Jim

Jim - I've proposed to Trevor that he simply hire a team of, say, 5 full-time "Chapter Concierges" per chapter to address issues like this. I'm sure he's sitting down there in his office right now holding his breath, waiting for the budget approval to hire 5,000 new staffers... ;)

(Note to all: The ;) means I'm kidding. Completely and totally.)


While Hal and I have been discussing this off line, and I think Hal probably finds this somewhat frustrating as well, I don't see any commitment on the EAAs part to address the issue.

-CubBuilder

By way of response, I'll say here what I said in the interesting and engaging exchange we've been having offline:

You have that commitment from me, now.

We’ve learned an awful lot over the last couple of years in terms of what works and what doesn’t. We will be working on some changes to the program, and I will do whatever I can to focus more energy on the “freedom” side of the equation. I genuinely do not want to stand in your way!

Trevor Janz
01-13-2014, 03:44 PM
Thank you for the feedback Jim. Hal and I are discussing our "wish list" for Webs.com and any and all feedback is appreciated.

rock4evr
01-13-2014, 09:35 PM
CubBuilder, is your Chapter a 501(c)(3)? If so, you might be able to find a local hosting company that will donate your site hosting. That has worked great for my chapter. We do pay for the domain registration but our hosting (the most expensive part) is provided at no cost. It never hurts to ask! As Hal suggested, we just put a link on the EAA-sponsored site that auto-redirects to our site. That works well-enough.

Happy Flying,
Kevin

Weeds1
03-30-2014, 06:13 PM
CubBuilder, is your Chapter a 501(c)(3)? If so, you might be able to find a local hosting company that will donate your site hosting. That has worked great for my chapter. We do pay for the domain registration but our hosting (the most expensive part) is provided at no cost. It never hurts to ask! As Hal suggested, we just put a link on the EAA-sponsored site that auto-redirects to our site. That works well-enough.

Happy Flying,
Kevin

Chapter 431 in Brodhead, Wis. uses DreamHost because they offer free hosting to non-profits. They don't make it easy to find on their website, but here is the link with the sign-up instructions:
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/Non-profit

As rock4evr mentioned, you still have to register your domain name, but that's fairly cheap. We get ours for $15/year.

Pat Weeden, webmaster
EAA Chapter 431
www.eaa431.org (http://www.eaa431.org)

CarlB
04-18-2014, 09:56 AM
Just had a look at our EAA website, it has the correct links, info from the EAA calendar and a link to our real website. Of course, I would like our current newsletter (http://online.fliphtml5.com/yasa/uxgh/) linked on it, will see what I can do to change that - we have another member that does our web editing. One problem with chapters keeping up websites is finding 1. People with skills to do the updating 2. People with time to do updating 3. People that really want to keep a simple website updated.

If there is any way I can help chapters, let me know - using simple free tools one can work on websites.

Carl Bogardus, EAA 555 Newsletter Editor