Certified Homebuilt Sim

[Jim Rosenow]

OK....back in the day Paul P and our other founders went to the FAA and convinced them to allow airplanes in the sky built by hand by people with no formal training at all.

I submit it's not that big a stretch to put together a sim or specs for a sim and propose it to the FAA to be certified for logging time just like the sim at the local flight school.

Granted in advance...the regulatory environment has changed since EAA started, and the guvmint folks might a bit more picky. Countering that is the fact the only thing we could hurt with a certified homebuilt sim is our proficiency. I'm not aware of a single instance of death, injury or property damage via sim :-)

Has anyone investigated that at all? Being a retired IT geek with time on my hands, I've been kind of wondering about it. It would be a fun project to work on.

Thanks!

Jim

[martymayes]

Jim, is that not already possible? FAR 61.4(c) provides for blanket approval of simulating devices. That's how a PCATD (personal computer airplane training device) is "approved" and can be used in some cases to to reduce the flight time required for a certificate or rating.

Of course, one requirement for using a flight simulator, FTD or PCATD is that an authorized instructor be present and conducting training. Even then, what can be logged or credited is somewhat limited but this is all the local flight school can do with it's simulator.

Perhaps you are suggesting a device that can be used to log time beyond what is currently authorized?

[Jim Rosenow]

Hi Marty....I should probably have confessed total ignorance on the subject in my initial post. That's why I started the discussion. :-)

I'm gonna go read the FAR...thanks!....and then I'll know more what I'm actually trying to do (other than specifically being able to log time in my basement).

Thanks!

Jim

P.S. I'm not worried about having to find an instructor to sim with....I married a CFII. It cuts down on the training costs :-)

[FlyingRon]

Most homebuilders (and even most PCATDs) could do a better job than the crap coming out of Redbird. I have never been more disappointed in my life than with my attempts to use the Redbird Full Motion G1000 that I bought some time on. What a crock.

[martymayes]

...and then I'll know more what I'm actually trying to do (other than specifically being able to log time in my basement).

Well, I'd like to do something similar except I don't really care about logging time. I have an interest in putting something together in my basement that the kids could learn basics of airplane control on and perhaps I could use to practice raw data cross check (without spending more than renting a real plane).

[Jim Rosenow]

You'll spend more than it takes to rent a real plane for an hour, but..... :-)

A quick check on amazon.com.... FSX Gold Edition software $15.49 (EASILY the best bargain in the WORLD on anything aviation-related), Saitek yoke/throttle quad $127.48, Saitek pedals $119, assuming you have a fairly modern computer and decent monitor, you're ready to sim with something approaching realism. Can you fly FSX with just a keyboard?...Yup, but why would you? (Disclaimer...no connection to any of these providers, but the products work for me in my situation)

From there, you can get as crazy as you want...Want to turn your head and change the view on the sim?...it can be done. Want a full heavy-hauler cockpit?...just bring $$. Want better scenery, more realistic or real-time wx.....more $$. Want to use 6 monitors or a projector....$$ ditto. It becomes addictive. You can also choose to decide that 80% of the flying experience for $400 (to pick a number) is better than 90% for $2000 or 95% for $20K in your situation.

Oops....the OP leading us off-topic! Bad OP! Let's start an 'entry level' hardware thread if there's interest. Anyone?

I've found an EAA Webinar on simming! Haven't gotten thru it yet, but started....interesting.

http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1526913944001

[rwanttaja]

You'll spend more than it takes to rent a real plane for an hour, but..... :-)

A quick check on amazon.com.... FSX Gold Edition software $15.49 (EASILY the best bargain in the WORLD on anything aviation-related), Saitek yoke/throttle quad $127.48, Saitek pedals $119, assuming you have a fairly modern computer and decent monitor, you're ready to sim with something approaching realism. Can you fly FSX with just a keyboard?...Yup, but why would you? (Disclaimer...no connection to any of these providers, but the products work for me in my situation)

I'm holdin' out for one of these:
http://www.spitsim.co.uk/

http://spitfiresite.com/uploaded_images/SpitSim_John_Flying__edited.jpg

http://spitfiresite.com/uploaded_images/P1010009_Kipling_2.jpg

Ron Wanttaja

[Jim Rosenow]

I finally got out to the website you referenced, Ron. Wow!

Lesseee...$5500 for the control set, another two or three grand for the computer to run it at whiz-band top speed, throw in a used Spitfire cockpit (snicker)...seems it would get you a long ways on another Fly Baby! :-)

If I didn't spend so much $$ flying, I'd love to do something similar, only built around a 182 cockpit.

[Bill Greenwood]

Some of that "simulator" looks very real like the landing gear lever or as the Brits say, the undercarriage lever as well as trim wheel and control stick or handle. Some are not authentic, like the throttle quadrant, and seat, as far as I can see.

I hope someone did not cut up a real Spitfire fuselage to make that cockpit section, the front window and door look real, the window behind the cockpit is definitely not.

It would be fun to sit in and experience that, especially if they have a realistic view out the front and the wonderful sound of a Merlin. I wonder if they can make the sim drip a little w120 out of the bottom?

[Jim Rosenow]

Jim, is that not already possible? FAR 61.4(c) provides for blanket approval of simulating devices. That's how a PCATD (personal computer airplane training device) is "approved" and can be used in some cases to to reduce the flight time required for a certificate or rating.

Advisory Circular 61-136 is the latest FAA 'stuff' I've found setting forth standards for the various classes of training devices. As you say, it's currently possible to get it done...I'm just gonna try and actually DO it :-) I'm not aware of anyone who has gotten approval for a one-off.

One of the primary requirements, as I read the AC is that once the software is started and set, no input from mouse or keyboard is permitted to complete the flight/training. Everything must essentially be hardware...yoke, pedals, panel switches, gear, flaps etc. ad nauseum. The switches, IC boards, wiring and stuff add up to a bundle of time and $$$$...even re-created with non-a/c parts.

One of the FSDO guys is coming to our airport this week, and I hope to meet with him to discuss my concept. One of my pitches will be that the newest avionics are touchscreen, so it seems reasonable to be able to use a touchscreen to control the virtual controls (switches, buttons, knobbies..not flight controls) on a PCATD. That would reduce the cost considerably, plus make the concept easily reproducable for others that want to do it, once approved the first time.

Just thinkin' out loud...

Jim