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View Full Version : In know the info is out there about LSA training but...



tallyho
12-02-2012, 05:21 PM
... that doesn't mean I understand it all. This is a new area for me even though I have been an aviator for most of my life. I am currently a Light Sport pilot. Many years of private and commercial flying (6000+ hrs) but financially strapped to continue with other than LSA flying.

I am in the process of acquiring a 1994 Challenger 2 registered (N numbered) with about 270 hours TT. Until I came along and discovered it hanging in a shop where it had been stored for four years, my flying life was pretty basic. Either someone would let me fly their airplane, or they wouldn't. This resulted in significant dry spells the last few years.

From what I've seen of this Challenger, it should be pretty straightforward as far as inspecting, reassembling and registering, the aircraft, where my confusion comes from is the idea of using it for flight training for my wife and kids, and maybe a couple of friends.

I am not an instructor, but I have a willing one available. None of the confusion I have is around me, or friends who have LSA or higher flying the aircraft, only about training for others.

Anyway, I spent much of yesterday, and a lot of today researching this situation online.

Here is what I believe is legal:
1. Owners of this category aircraft can be trained in the aircraft.
2. Use of the aircraft for training by non-owners is not permitted.
3. Revenue cannot be generated from the aircraft i.e. renting it for use.
4. Instructor can be compensated for his/her instructional hours.
5. If the aircraft is owned by a club, club members can use it for training. No revenue (renting/leasing) charges allowed.

Here's what I am not clear about (based on reading/audio from the internet):
1. Is my aircraft, because it was built and registered in 1994, eligible to be used for training. Is it LSA or ELSA, or both?
2. What the heck is the latest info on LODA and do I need one?
3. Would it be more useful to have all my family as owners, or to form a club with them as members. All are adults.
4. Is it too late, less hassle, to take up golf?

Any info, thoughts, suggestions appreciated.

Dana
12-02-2012, 08:02 PM
1. Correct, you can be trained in an experimental aircraft you own.
2. Incorrect, non owners can also be trained as long as they're not paying for the use of the aircraft.
3. Correct, unless the aircraft is owned by an instructor with a LODA.
4. Correct.
5. Correct (I think).

1. Your plane is either an E-AB or E-LSA. E-LSA is only for "fat ultralights" converted during the transition period. An E-AB is not actually a LSA, but it can be flown by a Sport Pilot if it meets the LSA limits.
2. You need a LODA if you're an instructor and you want to instruct in an "ultralight like" E-AB or ELSA.
3. Probably not necessary.
4. You want to spend hours walking around in the blazing sun beating a defenseless rubber pellet with an expensive stick when you could be flying?

tallyho
12-02-2012, 08:48 PM
Thanks Dana. I am actually in the PNW and at this time of year it would be a treat to walk around in the blazing sun... that being said even when it is overcast - and it mostly is - if the wind is moderate, the rain is light, and the ceiling high enough, I'd rather be flying.

It's not the flying I'd like to give up, it is the paperwork and not blanking out while trying to read and understand printed things that are said to be written in my native language. I once had a chief pilot at a float plane base tell me, a new hire, the following; "When the weight of paper equals the weight of the passengers, you can consider the paperwork done." At the time, I thought he was making a joke.
:rollseyes:

jedi
12-03-2012, 09:58 AM
It is not to late to take up golf but it is not nearly as much fun. I am sorry to hear you selected a Challenger. I have seen many of them that are poorly rigged and difficult to fly, particularly for a beginner.
Take a look at the airworthyness certificate to see what you have. I agree it is probably an Experimental. It need not say LSA on the certificate. If it meets the defination it can be flown under LSA rules. With your commercial (private or higher) certificate you can fly to part 61 limits for your certificate if you have a medical. In other words above 10,000 feet or less than 3 miles vis (when authorized) or over clouds, etc.
I am a CFI in the Seattle area, let me know if I can assist.
You will find that even LSA has paperwork. If you want real fun and freedom get an ultralight for yourself and the others after they learn to fly in the LSA.

tallyho
12-03-2012, 01:15 PM
Thanks for the reply Jedi. I am not concerned about the Challenger, there are folks in the area (Whatcom county) who have much experience with this type and have already been very helpful to me. It is Experimental registered, and my original question related to whether or not it could be used for training, and I believe I have the answer.

At some point, I envision a single place ultralight of my own. However I have a friend with one and we will be flying each others machines, In fact he let me fly his a few weeks ago which is what triggered my enthusiasm and subsequent search for an ultralight, which eventually led to the Challenger I am purchasing.