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Bill Greenwood
07-07-2012, 10:37 AM
For July 6, historic days, some of them on the tragic side.
In 1535, Sir Thomas More was executed for what was called "high treason". If you are not familiar with the true story, Thomas was innocent. He was the highest religious person in England, the archbishop, head of the church of England, and known to be a man of honesty and high moral principals. Unfortunalety the dogma of the church was "no divorce" , but the Queen did not have the child that the King needed as a successor, so the King divorced her and married a younger wife, a new queen. This was against the church teaching, so Sir Thomas would not give his blessing. He and the King had been friends, but power won out and Thomas was arrested and given a rigged trial.
The movie of this, A MAN FOR ALL SEASONS is probably the best movie I have ever seen. No warbirds, but the power of the govt.vs the conscience of the individual. Remember the shark hunter in Jaws, played by Robert Shaw: he is the King in this movie. Moore is Paul Scofield, as good an actor as ever was, later the German officer on the movie about the train. There is some action, and great dialog, suspense and drama.

And in 1942, Anne Frank and her family went into hiding in their attic in Amsterdam and survived for 2 years before their betrayal and execution.

In 1917, T E Lawrence, later Sir Lawrence, led Arab forces across the desert and captured the port of Aqaba from the Turks. Not a pilot, but he loved Rolls Royce cars, used them like armored cars, and motorcycles.
Perhaps the 3rd or 4th best movie I've ever seen, with great action, scenery, and lot's of major stars. Only a few warbirds, but lot's of great action and drama, and again dialog.

In 1885, French Dr. Louis Pasteur successfully treated a 9 year old boy with the first rabies vaccine. See , the French can make something besides great food, wine and art, and skis, and bad cars.

WeaverJ3Cub
07-07-2012, 06:06 PM
Nice list, Bill.

One thing that needs to be said about Thomas Moore though, is that he was decidedly NOT the religious saint that "A Man For All Seasons" portrays him as. By way of explanation, he hated the reformers so much that he would burn them at night in his gardens to light his dinner parties (yes, just like Nero) and wrote such vitriolic, vicious, and profane literature against Reformer and theologian William Tyndale that much of it either couldn't be published or had to blanked out like cursing in a TV broadcast. I think even the most devout Roman Catholic would find that reprehensible.

There is also much to suggest that opposing Henry VIIIs marriage was the "political" thing to do at the time and he had the support of some in the royal court. It has been said by scholars of the time that he simply finally lost the game he had been playing his whole life.

Just had to mention that, sorry to rain on your parade. :) That movie is just too inaccurate for me to let that slip.

steveinindy
07-07-2012, 06:38 PM
And in 1942, Anne Frank and her family went into hiding in their attic in Amsterdam and survived for 2 years before their betrayal and execution.


I figure since Weaver chimed in with concerns about inaccuracies, I might point something out too.

They weren't exactly executed per se. The ones who died did so of malnutrition and disease. Not that it makes it better (actually I think it makes it worse but that's just my take as a Jew) but still...there are enough falsehoods about that story and the Shoah in general circulating without people thinking the Franks were lined up and shot or gassed.

If I recall correctly, at least two of the people in the attic survived. I know for a fact that at least Mr. Frank survived because he was involved in the editing and publication of his daughter's diary.

Bill Greenwood
07-07-2012, 08:07 PM
I am not certain about More and any reformers, my brief research sides more with him., and against Cromwell. He was a devout Catholic and anti Protestant, as fits his country at that time.

But the movie starred 4 big stars, Paul Schofield, stage actor, Robert Shaw, Orson Wells, and Vanessa Redgrave. It won 6 Academy Awards , Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor.

And I don't have any idea what a "Shoah" is?

steveinindy
07-08-2012, 02:05 PM
And I don't have any idea what a "Shoah" is?

Sorry....the Holocaust. Shoah is the term that is used more commonly in academic and some Jewish cultural circles. I always forget that folks outside of those may not know it. My apologies about that....

Bill Greenwood
07-08-2012, 02:19 PM
I have been to many aviation museums, both in the U S and Britain. But one time, one day, one item really stays in my memory.
Near the middle of the US Air Force museum in Dayton in a genuine, or so the sign says, pair of striped pajamas. This came after I had seem Schindler's List and The Boy in the Striped Pajamas.
I am not Jewish, for what that is worth.

I did a little research on prejudice against Jews, wondering why they were singled out and/or why the public sometimes went along with the persecution.
I didn't find an exact answer, but found that such persecution did not start with the Nazis, rather as far back as 1400 or before, the Jews were in disfavor ,think they left France and came to England. For some reason they were the only ones allowed usury or able to charge interest, therefor the rest of the people resented this.

steveinindy
07-08-2012, 03:02 PM
I didn't find an exact answer, but found that such persecution did not start with the Nazis, rather as far back as 1400 or before, the Jews were in disfavor ,think they left France and came to England. For some reason they were the only ones allowed usury or able to charge interest, therefor the rest of the people resented this.

Yeah, a lot of folks seem to think that the Nazis came up with the idea and that it died out with them. Anti-Semitism is pretty deeply rooted in western culture not only because of the usury issue but also because, among other influences for it, the Catholic Church (and later many of the Protestant denominations) continued to teach that the "Jews killed Jesus because they were afraid he would seize power!" up until the time of Pope John Paul II. The Nazis simply held a match to the fuse of that powder keg.

The bigger issue is simply that being part of an ethnic or religious group doesn't make one special or "better" than any other nor does being part of a different group make you any less deserving of basic human decency, respect and the ability to live without fear of reprisal. We're all human being and whether we see eye to eye or not, if we keep that in mind, the world is a much nicer place.


But one time, one day, one item really stays in my memory.
Near the middle of the US Air Force museum in Dayton in a genuine, or so the sign says, pair of striped pajamas. This came after I had seem Schindler's List and The Boy in the Striped Pajamas.
I am not Jewish, for what that is worth.


One of the best (and smallest) museums I have ever been to is in my hometown of Terre Haute, IN. It's called the CANDLES Museum and is run by Eva Kor. She was one of the twins who was experimented upon by Dr. Mengele. One tough lady although she has a very interesting take on dealing with what happened to her. If you have Netflix, I suggesting watching "Forgiving Dr. Mengele". I had the pleasure of interviewing Mrs. Kor for an article in a student newspaper once (this was before I converted to Judaism) and she put it this way: "Forgiving someone has nothing to do with the person being forgiven. It has everything to do with the person doing the forgiving. Plus, if forgiveness doesn't work for you, you can always have your hate back". She's an amazing woman.

Floatsflyer
07-08-2012, 04:05 PM
Anne Frank died in the infamous Bergin-Belsen concentration camp of typhus which killed thousands in the camp. She died in March, 1945 less than a month before the camp was liberated by advancing allies. Her father Otto was the only family member to survive the Holocaust. After the war he went back to their hiding place in Amsterdam and discovered the diary and had it published.

Victor Kugler, one of the non-Jews who hid the family emigrated to Toronto in the 1950's and died if I recall in the early 80's. He(and so many others) is memorialized as one of the Righteous Ones(non-Jews who saved Jews during WW2) at the Yad Vishem Holocaust Museum in Isreal.

Eric Page
07-08-2012, 08:54 PM
One of the most moving places I've ever been is the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum (http://www.ushmm.org/) in Washington D.C. If you get a chance, go, and plan most of a day for the visit.

There were many powerful exhibits, but the one that sticks most in my mind was one of the simplest. It's a large room with a wooden walkway over which visitors move. The entire floor of the room is completely covered with shoes, and the smell of leather is overpowering. It gave a remarkable sense of the scale of the holocaust, but you're reminded that every pair of shoes was a person. Staggering.

Mayhemxpc
07-09-2012, 11:27 AM
Some confusion. More was chancellor of England, but not archbishop. He was a layman, married, with a large family. There was a previous Thomas/Henry conflict: Thomas Becket and Henry II. That Thomas WAS Archbishop of Canterbury, as well as Chancellor and also murdered/martyred -- but not by order of the King, but through misinterpretation of the anger of the King by two of his Knights.