Restoration project paperwork

[dsherburn]

I'm contemplating the purchase of an "easy" TaylorCraft restoration project. I have help from an AP/IA. What paper work should I be aware of when looking at these projects? I'm aware of the Air worthiness certificate, registration, title work, etc. but I'm less familiar of the "N" number re-registration requirement. I've read that the N number needs to be frequently registered in order to keep the Airworthiness cert valid? Maybe I have this wrong.......

[Tom Downey]

All you need to return to service is an annual and the completed 337s signed off.

and all that needs to be carried is the "AROW"

[Kyle Boatright]

A key thing is to make sure you get clear title. The path of ownership needs to clearly extend from the last owner who is on the FAA's records, through any intermediate owners, to you. That will allow you to re-register the aircraft, even if it has been unregistered for a while. If the registration is still in effect, you still need a bill of sale that shows a clear path of ownership to you.

[Jim Clark]

The path of ownership needs to clearly extend from the last owner who is on the FAA's records, through any intermediate owners, to you. .
I disagree. I purchased a Piper Pacer project that had moved through 5 owners in pieces. There was an original signed bill of sale from the owner of record that had never been assigned. I contacted Aircraft Registry and was informed that the proper way to handle this was to complete the bill of sale with my information and send it in. Many of these basket case projects have had many owners and the only bill of sale you need is the one from the current FAA registered owner to you. If you don't have that then don't buy it. If you do have it it doesn't matter if there has been numerous owners between.

[Kyle Boatright]

I disagree. I purchased a Piper Pacer project that had moved through 5 owners in pieces. There was an original signed bill of sale from the owner of record that had never been assigned. I contacted Aircraft Registry and was informed that the proper way to handle this was to complete the bill of sale with my information and send it in. Many of these basket case projects have had many owners and the only bill of sale you need is the one from the current FAA registered owner to you.

How do you get a bill of sale from someone 5 owners ago? Particularly if that owner is deceased?

Here's the scenario. The FAA owner of record is dead. There is a paper trail to the "next guy", but the FAA was never notified of the sale. You're buying from the "next guy". You need a clear, step by step, path of ownership - FAA Registered Owner -> Next Guy -> You.

I had this discussion with the registry office a couple of months ago. No doubt there can be some variation in the process because you're dealing with individuals in the FAA.

[martymayes]

I'm contemplating the purchase of an "easy" TaylorCraft restoration project. I have help from an AP/IA. What paper work should I be aware of when looking at these projects? I'm aware of the Air worthiness certificate, registration, title work, etc. but I'm less familiar of the "N" number re-registration requirement. I've read that the N number needs to be frequently registered in order to keep the Airworthiness cert valid? Maybe I have this wrong.......

Most of the paper like A/W cert. is replaceable. If you don't have paperwork, helps to have identifying data, i.e., the permanent tag commonly called a dataplate. Does not matter if the registration is current or not, that can be brought up so speed. Sure, may need to apply for a new new n-number and purist may fret over losing an original n-number but you can always get that back at some point in the future.

[nrpetersen]

My Piper J4A had a fuselage S/N (on a metal tag welded on) that was ~3 different from the aircraft S/N. This was near the end of my rebuild but as near as I can tell, the aircraft S/N is the only assigned to the paper work. I was panic stricken (whose aircraft had I been rebuilding?:eek:) but the Cub Club said my S/Ns were unusually close.

Joint the type club. They are a wonderful resource.

[Jim Clark]

How do you get a bill of sale from someone 5 owners ago? Particularly if that owner is deceased?

Here's the scenario. The FAA owner of record is dead. There is a paper trail to the "next guy", but the FAA was never notified of the sale. You're buying from the "next guy". You need a clear, step by step, path of ownership - FAA Registered Owner -> Next Guy -> You.

I had this discussion with the registry office a couple of months ago. No doubt there can be some variation in the process because you're dealing with individuals in the FAA.

Death does not void a legal signature. I clearly stated that I had an original bill of sale from the owner of record that had not been assigned. None of the owners in the chain had ever filled in their information and registered the aircraft. If as you stated there was a paper trail to the next guy then I assume the next guy had already filled in the bill of sale to him. That being the case he would need to complete the registration and sign a bill of sale to you. If however the bill of sale had never been assigned (filled in with the new owner information) you would simply complete the bill of sale and send it in. At least per the Wichita, KS FSDO.

[Kyle Boatright]

Death does not void a legal signature. I clearly stated that I had an original bill of sale from the owner of record that had not been assigned. None of the owners in the chain had ever filled in their information and registered the aircraft. If as you stated there was a paper trail to the next guy then I assume the next guy had already filled in the bill of sale to him. That being the case he would need to complete the registration and sign a bill of sale to you. If however the bill of sale had never been assigned (filled in with the new owner information) you would simply complete the bill of sale and send it in. At least per the Wichita, KS FSDO.

The take away is that a prospective owner needs a clear title and that depending on what paperwork exists and who is still alive, getting that title may be hard or may be easy.

[WLIU]

If the airplane was been a basket case for some time, check that the airworthiness certificate has no expiration date. I once purchase and airplane that had been stored in 1954 and did not come out for 17 years. Well a long time ago airworthiness certificates were only valid for one year and they were renewed at each annual inspection. The CAA or FAA eventually decided that they did not need to do that and all of the one year certificates were replaced with permanent ones. My airplane missed that changeover. I had to contact the FSDO and get a permanent airworthiness certificate issued. The airplane had been flying for a few years before I wanted to purchase it and the last owner had never noticed the expiration date.

Antique airplanes have interesting challenges.

Best of luck,

Wes

[Jim Clark]

Lots of talk here about having a "clear title". I have owned 29 airplanes and have never seen a title. Ownership is transferred by AC Form 8050-2 Aircraft Bill Of Sale. Proof of ownership is the aircraft registration. Don't make this more difficult than it is. If you have an 8050-2 signed by the CURRENT REGISTERED OWNER in the FAA registration database and your information is filled in as the purchaser then you own the airplane. Send it in with the FAA Registration Form and you will receive a registration proving your ownership.

[Royce020]

wow, excellent work!
good luck!

[Tom Downey]

Lots of talk here about having a "clear title". I have owned 29 airplanes and have never seen a title. Ownership is transferred by AC Form 8050-2 Aircraft Bill Of Sale. Proof of ownership is the aircraft registration. Don't make this more difficult than it is. If you have an 8050-2 signed by the CURRENT REGISTERED OWNER in the FAA registration database and your information is filled in as the purchaser then you own the airplane. Send it in with the FAA Registration Form and you will receive a registration proving your ownership.

When we talk of a title, we are speaking of the aircraft registration. it is the title document of your aircraft and the only form the FAA uses to show ownership.


title documents can take many forms, a deed for your land, and for cars we use a title which varies from state to state. Just because we don't call it a title, doesn't mean it isn't.